Dismantling the Patriarchy – Witch Doctor Edition with Dr Danielle Arabena

Posted by Angela Gallo on

Dr Danielle Arabena rides into this podcast today on the back of her dragon screaming like Xena, announcing her presence and commanding the attention that she deserves, like the boss bitch that she is. This woman has challenged every possible norm in terms of what it means to be a doctor, what it means to be a general practitioner, the model that she uses, the heart that she has, the way that she brings instinct and intuition back to her work. This has been an incredibly arduous journey and one I cannot wait to explore with you today.

Dr Danielle Arabena is a medical doctor, specialist, and educator who, in spanning the realms of medicine and magic, has reclaimed herself as a healer. By blending her scientific, alchemic and experiential knowledge, Danielle supports others on their sacred journey to wholeness.

Danielle, a GP of Torres Strait Islander descent, was called by Spirit to follow a path of service, compassion, and healing. With an interest in holistic women’s health, menstrual wellness, and childbirth, she offers workshops, healing sessions and consultations. Danielle’s work empowers women, partners and families to experience a sacred revolution in medicine and birth where alchemy and the ancient mysteries are honoured.

Get ready to have your mind blown repeatedly! This is a long episode, but it’s worth every. damn. minute. 


  • The lack of ceremony and ritual in the birthing space
  • Going ninja, covert spiritual practices style
  • Listening to your spirit first and foremost, or it will just get louder and more insistent
  • Having uncomfortable conversations with medical practitioners to speak your truth
  • Working within the aboriginal community and understanding their healing rituals
  • Is there a thing as too many degrees? In Danielle’s case, no. She has three!
  • Squashing your spiritual side to fit into the “system” and the affect this has on you
  • Standing in your truth and speaking proudly, to do the work that’s most imporant to you
  • Raising the human vibration to a whole new level of acceptance and understanding
  • What it means to be a Birth Alchemist


Website – http://www.drdaniellearabena.com

Facebook – https://www.facebook.com/DrDanielleArabena/?ref=bookmarks

Instagram – https://www.instagram.com/drdaniellearabena/

Birthing Alchemy Witch School


Winter Solace Workshop


Guest on The Priestess Podcast – Indigenous Healing with Dr Danielle Arabena 




Angel: Yo, yo, yo everybody. It is me, Angel Gallo, now known as Angel Phoenix Arsenal, and you are tuning in to another killer episode of Slaying the fucking Status Quo in Style. Today, we have got someone who is the marriage of science and soul, the witchy warrior goddess who is a general practitioner, and a doctor, and a shamanic healer, who just so happens to retrieve things out of the bodies of people, who travels to other dimensions, who works with indigenous people, who is a just smorgasbord of all healing activity across cultures and astral planes and dimensions and someone who has just serendipitously fallen into my life and literally changed everything I am and the direction of my life by reawakening something in me. She just really happens to be the biggest fucking rebel that I know. So without further ado, let us welcome Dr. Danielle Arabena.

Dr. Danielle Arabena: Hey. Hello hello, I come to you riding my dragon across the airways. Greetings to everybody. Who's listening?

Angel: That is actually a really sexy entrance.

Danielle: Thank you.

Angel: Imagine like in an audio wave, translate that, what it would look like to ride the back of a dragon on to a podcast episode and obviously you're the only fucking person that would do that with such style.

Danielle: With the Xena fucking [war cry] war cry as I fucking fly my dragon. [war cry]

Angel: Oh my god. Danielle?

Danielle: Yes?

Angel: Let's tell everybody first of all where I met you and a little bit of the backstory so that they can understand where I'm at, what I'm thinking, how I'm feeling, why I brought you on to the show, why I'm so excited to meet you, and why I think it's hilarious that you're like "What are we going to talk about?" In my head, I'm like, "You just need to be, and exist, and just listen, and answer questions," and don't you worry because you just really challenge every fucking possible norm in terms of what it means to be a doctor, what it means to be a general practitioner, the model that you use, the heart that you have, the ways that you bring instinct and intuition, and all of your beautiful witchiness back to what it is you do.

Also, precursor, when we talk about it in a second, this was no easy thing for Danielle to do. This has been an arduous journey, an arduous process of reconciling everything that is modern and mainstream to everything she knows she has been in past lifetimes and everything she carries in her blood and everything she carries in her soul. It has just been beyond impressive for me to see you, really watch you unfold, for lack of better words, when I first met you to now. I remember I knew about you around the time of the doula conference in Melbourne. When the hell was that? I don't even remember.

Danielle: I think it was 2017?

Angel: Where does the time go?

Danielle: I don't know darling, I don't know. Seriously, this is no shit. So I'm at this doula conference. I'm going along with Jane Hardwick Collins and I notice a couple of things. Sometimes I like to think I'm like Jason Bourne from the Bourne Identity. I like to notice things, you know, try and sass things out and what I noticed is that a lot of chicks were walking around with this other woman's face on their t-shirt. Right? I was like, who the fuck is this chick with this pink hair that people have got on this t-shirt?What the hell?

Next minute Angel Gallo walks up on stage and talks about social media. I'm sitting next to Jane and I'm like, feeding Jane questions to ask Angel, like, "Ask her this. Ask her this." Anyway, and so, like I don't know, fuck all of that, you know, how to hashtag or anything like that. I think I'm a little bit better now but when I walk past, I'm trying to be really cool. You're outside and I was like, just, you know, put a photo up and you were like "Tag me" and I'm like "Oh my god, she's talking to me."

So anyway, then, I started following Angel from afar. Not obsessively, just like, “Oh yeah, she’s a cool chick”. Then probably like mid last year, I'm playing around with my Tarot cards as you do. When you start thinking about, let's call it the breadcrumbs, when you look at your breadcrumbs of the life, like what's the trial, what's the track that's been leading you to where you are now? For me, it's always been around women and birthing.

I'll backtrack and tell you the whole story about me and how I ended up being here but the short story is how did I fall into Angel's lap, I suppose, for want of a better word. As I was pulling out these Tarot cards, and very clearly, a voice said to me, "You need to go to Angel. You're going to be a doula." I was like, "Oh, really? But I'm a doctor", and then I recalled the only time I really really enjoyed myself in the hospital system when I was a medical student and I was holding space for a woman giving birth because when we're a medical student, we had to catch "four babies". We had to go and spend time with the woman and for me that was the best thing and the midwives were like, "Oh, you shouldn't be a doctor, you should be a midwife," because it was this most amazing experience I ever had.

Even later on, as a junior doctor, when I was assisting in cesareans, I would always be the one crying and trying not to like break the sterile field, you know, rubbing my eyes because I was crying. What I realized is, subconsciously or unconsciously, I was tapping into this sacred birth energy because I'm a keeper of that energy, I now realize. So, long story short, I had the time off when Angel was running her doula course in Byron Bay. I said, "Fuck it, why not? Why not?" So then I walked up there and I casually put my drum in the back because who knows what's going to happen.


Angel: Danielle is referring to her journeying drum which we will get to.

Danielle: Yes. As I'm watching Angel, I walked in and felt her spirit and felt her energy and her rockstar-ness and I thought, "Fucking hell, this woman is a powerhouse." To me, she was just burning so brightly and flying so high and you can't help but get caught. It's like she's a comet. You're a comet and we're all caught up in this fucking tailwind of this comet that is blazing across the sky. It was a real privilege and I think everyone spent different parts of their days or like part of it in tears.

For me, there was a day where I felt very sad. I think when we were talking about what's happening to women in the birth arena and then a lot of the sort of badness against doctors. I just felt really sad because I realized that there are a lot of doctors who are called to this. Being a doctor is a way that I'm in the system as a healer and you're called to it like the priesthood. The system's fucked. The system is overwrought, it's broken, it's sick, and so then I started thinking about ways.

I think from your cause, I realized that there's a lot of ways I want to do things differently, and for me being an indigenous doctor with my background, so I'm a descendant of the Meriam Mer clan groups from the Torres Strait. Being a Torres Strait Islander doctor, I'm also a medical educator. I realized that the lack of ceremony and I've known this for a long time because we have initiations into the different parts of our life. Childbirth is one of them, becoming the mother that we've lost not only our village, but we've lost our village rituals and so I think it's really important for us as a community to come together and embrace that.

There's a lot of doctors. I held a woman in medicine circle, so I hold moon temples and stuff like that. My moon temples can be quite witchy. I was governed by spirits to run one for doctors and I thought I'd keep it really straighty one-eighty. No metaphysical or anything. Just a group of women coming and sitting in a circle. I didn't make them tell me where they're bleeding in relation to the moon. Just sit wherever you feel like it. Okay?

I'm sitting there. I've got two cardiothoracic surgeons. I've got physicians, psychiatrists, general practitioners. I've got this group of women who've come to come and connect and then I've got this sentient being on my property where the rooms are, grandmother tree. So she starts going, "Oh everyone's going to do a shamanic journey tonight." She is talking in my head and I'm like, "Oh no. No, no. We're keeping it straighty one-eighty here." She's like, "No. No, no, they need to." I'm like, "Fuck no. I've got two heart surgeons here. We're not doing that."

Anyway, it became incessant. What I've learned over the years, is that if I ignore the voice, it gets louder. I call it the spirit humbugging. So I'm like [groans]. So then I go, "Right. Now, how about we do a little visualization. Nothing witchy. Nothing's going to happen, but we're just going to use our imagination and we're going to walk down the path to grandmother tree, this beautiful tree outside. We're just going to sit at the base of the tree and we're going to breathe and now I'm just going to pick up my little drum here. We're just going to drum a little bit to help you meditate. Anyway, we go off. We did a journey, “meditation”, come back and everybody is just sitting there.

Angel: Sorry. I am literally trying not to cackle and howl right now. This is what everyone needs to hear, how ninja you are. You are literally--

Danielle: Covert, covert spiritual practices.

Angel: You're like the Trojan horse of everything that is intercepting the mainstream medical world, like how beautiful and what an amazing testament to honoring the voice in you and the balance you get from spirit. Creating this space for them, it's blowing my mind and making me laugh. Sorry, go on.

Danielle: You're all right. We came back and everyone's quiet. I was like, "Oh no. What's happened?" I said, "Okay," really gently, real casual, I was like, "How did everybody go? Do you feel really relaxed?" Each one of them like GP said something, said, "Yes, it was really good. Actually, grandmother tree told me some stuff." I was like, "Okay. That's really interesting."

I went around the room and every fucking one of them met with grandmother tree. One of them was like, "Was that real? What happened?" It just had the most amazing interactions with the fucking tree. Each one of them had a separate message from grandmother tree and really changed their lives. 

What I love is that one of the doctors came back to a moon temple. I messaged her and I said, "This is Danielle Witch, this is Moon Temple loose, not straighty 180." She's like, "No, that's okay." She came back and she said, "I needed the evidence because there's been things that have been happening to me experiencing that are beyond what I know.

What I'm saying is that doctors, we are in the system, but we're hidden. What's not to say that all of these women who came to this have been priestesses in a past life or stepping into their power. I get a lot of messages. I got one from a GP in Scotland who heard about my story and was like, "I'm learning shamanic practices. Thank you so much for what you're doing."


Angel: Danielle, I'm actually obsessed with you. I'm just letting you know, it was so perplexing to me particularly, as you know, people that work with me were fangirling over you. I knew about your work and I knew about your credentials. To see you in this space, I was eating your energy and reading your energy. It was very interesting for me to see that someone as powerful as you and as knowing as you and as grounded as you and as wildly dynamic as you was still battling some level of, "I can be the whole me." It was really interesting watching you evolve, and then eventually when you had that breakdown breakthrough.

The things that you have burst through and become since then is not even something that I'm going to sit here and be like, "You're welcome." Not at all. It's like, "Wow. Thank you, universe, for bringing her to a place," whereby all accounts, you would've been like, "I'm a doctor. Why do I need to go to Doula training?" Trusting that, coming there, and watching me and then watching everyone else go through their own evolution. Through that, you and I teaming up, which now bringing you into my trainings because everyone needs to hear what you're saying.

In fact, I was having a downloadable, what I need you to teach my students about. The ways that we've 100% past life stuff, 100%, you and I had this stable full of Gryffindors. I don't even know because there are some things so powerful there. If this is you now, what the F are you going to be in 10 years when you have nothing left to lose? What is going to happen when you literally become this beacon for all of the sleeping healers of this world which are the individuals who were called to be doctors, who were called to be doctors and surgeons of all degrees who have essentially been squashed and stifled by a sick system, and the ways that your work, your activating of that priestess, your activating of that change is going to be gigantor?

This is what I told you in the training. We're talking about an upheaval of this system, a realizing that it can't just be science and evidence, it has to be a meeting of everything that is unseen and a meeting that is everything that is just knowing that we feel and how pivotal you are going to be in that. It is just an honor to witness and an honor to just fathom in my brain. I love just watching you live this life in my head. I'm like, "Wow, that is fucking bananas and so, so, so cool."

I guess what I really want to say right now is being as this is a show about slaying the status quo in style, being that everything it is that you are is really quite precarious, like having to live in two worlds, one that is hyper-stigmatized and really quite hyper-stereotyped, versus the other which is really clean cut Harry, registration, everyone has to be a certain way and act a certain way, how has it been journeying this life of soul and science and having to fit in a box but knowing deep within you that your fully-expressed potential is outside of that box? How has it been mitigating that?

Danielle: It's been really quite fucking difficult actually. I've had to be brave many times in my life. For those who don't know me, we might just backtrack a bit to as a young girl. When I was a young girl, spirit always came first for me. My heart has always been I'm a healer. Even when I was a young girl and I used to famously make my lizard hotels for all the little skinks, [chuckles] I'd get a little ice cream bucket and fill it up with sand and make a little fucking bark structure for these lizards. I'd collect them. I'd be in there for two seconds and then fuck off, they’d leg it. It didn't stop me because I was caring and I had a capacity for healing and compassion. All of those things. I was a savior of lizards, of ants.

Angel: The best story. Make your origin story, The Lizard Hotel.

Danielle: They fucking liked it. I'm grateful. I'm grateful. When I was a young girl, I used to see a spirit come stand at the end of my bed. I remember actually, it appeared to be like a wounded soldier would come and stand at the end of my bed as well, and they'd just be gazing at me. I'd get freaked out and I'd run and jump into bed with my sister.

Also, growing up with a Torres Strait Islander background, we always had this connection to the other. There was always something. We had this magical bottle of dugong oil under our cupboard. If you've ever watched My Big Fat Greek Wedding, the equivalent to the Windex. The dugong oil was something that would heal everything. It was a part of our traditional culture, stuff that would be rubbed on you. If you were sick, you'd have to have some dugong oil. Fuck knows how long it's been there for. I gagged whenever it came near because it stank. It was- 


Angel: Oh my gosh.

Danielle: It was part of a healing thing. Working with the aboriginal community over at Minjerriba which is Strabroke Island, they actually used the dugong oil too for healing and rubbing on for chest wounds. We always had this idea of something that was other. As a child, I remember actually, I got a book from the library, it was about being a witch. I would just remember being, "Fuck, that's so cool." It was amazing. I was obsessed with it. Used to read stuff about UFOs and ghosts and all of that stuff was something that always interested me.

When I was about, say, probably 18, I had a dream where three Torres Strait Island women came to me and they pricked my ring finger on my left hand and said, "It's time for you to wake up." They drew blood. Blood was drawn them. I started vibrating in my body very quickly and I shot out of my body. I was bounding across the field. I was actually an animal. I had shapeshifted into this animal. I realized that I was a wolf and I pounded up on a hill. I was looking down at the scene, there was a teepee and there were people there.

Then I came back to my body and the three Torres Strait Island women were standing around and they said, "What animal were you? What did you turn into?" I said, "I was a wolf." They said, "Well, you need to go with this one." There was another person there, but in the background, there was a Torres Strait Islander man, but he was right back in the background.

I met one of my guides who was a native American medicine woman. I didn't realize that she was a very powerful medicine woman until she appeared to me many years later in all of her garb. 

She started teaching me stuff around herbal-- I was being directed. When I say I'm being taught by a spirit, I was taught in dreams. I literally have books falling off shelves in front of me.

I know that I'd have to go and find a book because I'm a fucking nerd. I've got 20,000 books, I would say, in my house. I had lots of dreams. In those dreams, I was taught how to do crystal surgery. Crystals were my first modality. I could sense things in people's bodies and I could pull stuff out of people's bodies.

Little Danielle started the longest part of being a healer, but I was also studying my communications degree because fuck me dead, if I wasn't good at doing presentations, I had a plan of maybe going to Hollywood and running a male model agency because I'd been heavily influenced by Jackie Collins novels at the time and I wanted to use my powers for good and not for evil. Of course, I was going to set up a male model agency. I was going to head off and do public relations.

I ended up being quite disillusioned at going to university and everyone was dressed up in their power suits and briefcases and I'd walk up in a pair of tracksuit pants and my fucking high tops and a flannel shirt. Then I saw people who looked at me and they were film people. Then I launched in and I ended up doing a double major in public relations and film and TV, but all the time in the background, I started having this intense spiritual stuff going on.

Angel: When you originally had this dream, like at 16, 17,18 Did you know what you were seeing or was it something that only became clear to you in hindsight because I'm sure many people listening will be like, "Whoa, I've had a dream like this." Was it something that you only thought after?

Danielle: At the time when I was a wolf, I knew I was a wolf and all of the other things. It was like I was being taken up sometimes in my body, when I was being taught my stuff by spirit. I was being taken up actually, so that was a way for me to realize that it's like I was going to school, like spiritual school in a different dimension. I was being taught the crystal surgery and stuff like that. I always had an awareness of it and I didn't think it was weird because I didn't really have anyone to speak to about it. It just was happening, and then I met my husband, at the time, there was this hot guy I was shagging.

When I met him, he's a very spiritual guy too and he was astral traveling and flying in his dreams, so for me to be with him and then start really intensely experiencing the things that I experienced, it was almost like it was too much, the floodgates had been opened. Danielle, we're teaching you all you need to know now because you've got shit to do in the world. I was showing then as a young lass that there was a   woman shop and I'd be working in that. I had no idea at the time that it would be an integrative medical practice. I had no idea at the time that I was going to be a doctor.

I was just a little healer girl, a bit lost, my husband, bless his little socks, got into the police because he's always the warrior and about protecting people. Then I got pregnant as you do, as I mentioned previously, lots of shagging. I had a lot of spiritual downloads, books falling off shelves all the time just before it happened while I was pregnant afterward and then it was just really about knowing who I was and really listening to, as I said, the voices, the big thing here was particularly around working with women and children, because I've done everything, everything. I'm a Reiki Master, every massage modality.

Angel: Hold on, let's go through this. First of all, how many degrees do you have?

Danielle: Three.

Angel: What degrees do you have?

Danielle: I've done a Bachelor of Business and Communications. I was going to say, I was also an infant massage instructor and I was walking around a baby expo thing and a voice dropped in and said, "You're going to work with women and children." I read that as I was going to be a midwife, and so I ended up getting into a nursing degree and it was at the time I got into my nursing degree, that I literally had a phone call out of the blue from nowhere. I don't even know how this person found my number and said, "Do you want to be a doctor?" I was like, "No, I'm going to be a midwife," and he was like, "Are you sure?" It was a thing for indigenous doctors all trying to get more indigenous doctors on board and they said, "We could really help you be an excellent doctor." I was like, "No."

Then I got into my nursing degree and I think the first week we had to practice putting someone on a bedpan and feeding someone jelly. Well, I fucking hate jelly, number one, and the idea of me bed panning someone wasn't something I saw as a long term career choice for myself, but at the time when I was in my nursing degree, my dad actually got really sick. He is a Torres Strait Islander man and was a what we call a vascular path. He had diabetes, had a stroke, had his leg amputation. At the time, he started getting quite unwell and then before I knew it, I was almost finished my nursing degree. I turned around I said, "Where did the fuck that time go?" What was really interesting in my nursing degree, my big takeaway message from that, the one thing that will fucking stick with me is that I was shining too bright in that degree and I had this old mole fucking bitch of a woman who was caught up in that certainly not supporting the strong feminine.

Angel: [crosstalk] Let's rewind and let's say I had this old jerk of a woman

Danielle: Okay, yes.

Angel: Rewind.

Danielle: Rewind. Anyway, so I've been used to obviously getting high distinctions in my degree and everybody loving me and thinking I was amazing and I'd like just rocking because I thought it was a bit, like, I was good at what I did and she failed me. It was a real power play and I have had that a couple of times reflecting over my career and she literally said to me, "Don't think you're better than you actually are." I had two reactions. First was the stabbing, deep wounding and the next one I had was lean forward and said, "Just fucking watch me."

Angel: Yes, did you say it?

Danielle: No, because she'd failed me. I was gutted. I sat there and I went, "These are the two things I can do. There's a person who has power over me. She's an older woman who's been through the system." It was depressing for me to have someone who said that, to really stamp on your light, "Don't think you're better than you actually are."

Angel: This is the definition of that patriarchal hierarchy and the idea of instead of, encouraging young people to their potential, let's just make them feel like absolute garbage and like little minions.

Danielle: It actually caused quite a kerfuffle in the whole nursing school because obviously, I'd been getting very high grades and then this person had failed me. It turned into us versus them and people were roaring on different sides. It was around that time that I realized, obviously, when I was doing my nursing placements, we would actually have medical students come through at the same time and I found myself sidling sideways like a little crab, like scuttling to the side and trying to listen to what the medical students were talking about. It was just like that seed had been planted from that phone call right. I was like, " I could be a doctor, not being a nurse now."

I really felt this pull towards becoming a doctor. It was quite the journey because then I go down to my poor husband who's getting through his policing stuff and around that time, I think he was working with CIB and he's an excellent detective, solving murders and all of that stuff. We're both working through these different things about how we're helping people, but I had this amazing experience when I was in the hospital as a nursing student, it actually just made me go, "Ugh, there's so much more to our life than what we're experiencing."

I'm casually just packing cotton wool balls down in the storage room, putting the cotton wool balls in and I hear the code like, [beeping]. I went, "Oh shit, something exciting is actually happening," and I ran outside and it was my patient and the lights were going off. As a nursing student, I can't do anything anyway, so I'm backed up against the wall while this man's crashing and I had a med call. They had all the doctors and nurses coming in and he's unconscious, and I'm backed up against the wall and I could see the two worlds happening at once. I was like one of those, again, salamander, lizard. I was a lizard, and the lizards that float on the wall and they have two eyes above and two eyes below and I can fly there and I can see everything at once and that was me. I could see his spiritual guardians, I could see his spirit mob, whatever you want to call it, angels, guardians, there with him in the room.

I could feel the energy, I could feel the death portal opening up and I could see the medical field happening. I could see the machines that say bing, the blood pressure, clear, all of that stuff, and I'm back up against the wall, just watching this happen. Then I see the fading of the spirit people and then I realized that he wasn't going to die. His time wasn't up, and so afterward, in recovery, I was taking one of his blood pressure, and I just remember thinking, "Wow, you just had a whole team here. A whole team with you," and it really made me realize that you never die alone. You bring in this whole group with you when you pass, when that portal of energy opens up, you have these guardians to help you transition.


Angel: You had those salamander eyes, like there's no one else in the room that could see that. How did it feel being in a position where you have this really unique lens? How do you even approach operating as a professional in the medical field when you have that level of insight?

Danielle: I found it very difficult actually, I had to shut it down which again is part of the journey for me about leaving my healing gifts and then coming back to it. I realized in the hospital it was very difficult to be so open. I finished my nursing degree, was working for a year or two before I got into medicine, but walking into a room as a nurse and seeing all that spirit there and seeing, you'd come back out and you go, "You might want to call bed two, seven, four's family," and they are like, "Why? Nothing's going on," I said, "Just give them a call."

Having that knowledge, you have to shut it down because you can't be in the system like that and be so open because it hurts you. It hurts you too much.

I found that I put on heaps of weight in there. It was almost like it was an energetic protection for me and I literally had to actively shut my chakras down I had to close my crown chakra close everything down so I could be in the system, that was part of me not standing in my true power.

When Danielle was little healer girl and I was just operating as a healer, I intuitively was pouring my menstrual blood on the garden, but had no knowledge of anyone telling me this stuff. It was quite an interesting space to be in. Then, when I finally got into medicine, I famously say that, I felt like I was the at the Top Gun Academy. Mongoose and fucking ice man, and I was the fat drunk pilot in the corner with the shitty plying that had the propeller, [mimics propeller] You have to push the propeller to start it. I was in shock. I was like, "What the hell? How the hell did I even ask my way into medicine? I have no right to be here."

Then the lecturer came on and very serious, and there's 500 medical students in the room and he's like, "If you believe in homeopathy, you might as well leave." I sat there and I thought, "Well, I can travel into people's bodies, so where the fuck does that leave me? I shut it down, shut it down, shut it down, shut it down." I literally had my Shamanic drum, my first drum I made was tied up under my bed.

I did what I needed to do to get through, but spirit wouldn't let me off that easy because first year of medicine I went out to Alice Springs because I joined the Australian Indigenous Doctors Association and out there on the stage there were these two old Aboriginal men and they are talking in language and they had an interpreter, but what they were talking about was what I could do. They could travel into people's bodies, they could pull things out, see the sense of spirit.

I was like, "Holy shit, I've never met anyone like me." In my family lineage, there apparently were people like us or like me, but there was no knowledge of that because a lot of that knowledge around Aboriginal Torres Strait on this culture was lost during the Stolen Generation and government policies at the time. To see these two old men up on stage standing in their power and being acknowledged by a group of doctors standing up, giving them a standing ovation--

Angel: That would've been the ultimate metaphorical light at the end of the tunnel for you. Like, "Wow, okay so maybe I don't have to be Top Gun Academy for the rest of my life." Like being seen, feeling like, "Wow, I can be a part of something." A coming home of--

Danielle: It was, but it was tricky because as a student, you're still playing the game. That's what it was. I became a master at playing the game and seeing these two old members, but they wouldn't let me go. I went up to them afterward and I'd like to say it was cute and polite crying, but it wasn't. It was me bawling my eyes out and trying to explain to them that I was like them.

I had developed this really beautiful relationship with these old men over the years, so much so that one of the uncles passed, he's transferred some of his powers to me for which I'm forever grateful and humbled.


Danielle: Get through medical school, get through the junior doctor years, head out into GP land, I really set for a while with doing obs and gyn, but for me, it wasn't about me cutting women's uteruses out. It just wasn't something that really resonated with me, though the call to work with pregnant women was very strong. I realized that GP was a good space for me to do that and doing shared antenatal care.

Then I'm sitting my consultancy exams to become a GP consultant, the first time I sat the exams, I had a lot of trauma going on. My maternal grandmother committed suicide. She didn't want to go into a nursing home at 93, bless her. My father was unwell within aged care. We had to have the difficult conversations that he would never be able to go home and my mother's cancer had come back. I had a bit of a trifecta thing going on. I was locking myself away and studying for these exams for like six months.

Angel: Oh my gosh.

Danielle: Every night, every day, every weekend, just studying. I ended up failing one exam. There were three exams. I ended up failing one by 0.6%. I found out when I was on the tarmac in Adelaide that I'd failed and my heart just broke because I put everything I had into it. My husband, bless him, when I decided I wanted to become a doctor, he left his job in the CIB and took on basically raising the children and became an officer in charge of a police station down the road.

When we moved at the end of med school to a property that he saw this big tree on, grandmother tree, grandmother tree called him to this property. I'll back track. I'll tell you another interesting thing. When we moved at the end of med school to a property that he saw this big tree on, grandmother tree called him to this property.

Shortly after that, I was in a car accident where I rolled off the cliff up here, but I was actually saved by the trees from going. I was off a cliff down the side of the road, two weeks before I finished med school. I'm aquaplaning on the fucking mountain road and I went, "Is this how I die? Are you fucking kidding me?" Two weeks before I finished med school, come on. What is this meant to be?"

Angel: Oh my God.

Danielle: I rolled off a cliff.

Angel: What?

Danielle: Yes, I had this sense of survival though, which was really quite interesting, but as I was going over the cliff, I felt like there were these two big angel wings that came around me and cushioned me, held me as the car started rolling down the cliff, and I stopped by a tree and where the tree hit the car, if it was 10 centimeters, 10 centimeters, it would have gone through me. It stopped it at the axle.

All of these things happened. I'm sitting on the roof of the car, you know, the car, on its roof. I'm sitting there and I went, "Okay, I'm alive." I start trying to beat the horn. I'm trying my phone because you can't see the car from the road and a gentleman at the same time, I spoke to him afterwards, a voice then told him to stop and he stopped the car, slowed it down, and that's when he heard me beeping the car horn. He comes down and saves me. I actually wasn't off the cliff for very long, but what I realized is that that was one of my Shamanic initiations.

Angel: Okay, hold on a second. I need to take a breathe here. What?

Danielle: Because when you're on the path of a shaman, quite often, you'll have some near life experiences, or past life experiences and that was my initiation with earth. I've had one in water. When I was a young girl, I actually fell off the side of a boat into the ocean and my father dove in after me, but I actually felt something lifting me up. It's like an animal, or something was pushing me up so that he could reach up and grab me. That was my initiating into water. I've had one into fire and I have had one and I've had wanting to spirit, whole different thing.

Angel: Holy--

Danielle: Yes, that was one of my initiations just as I was finishing med school. Fast forward, Danielle's failed 0.6%. Pass mark's not good old 50%, it's like 75 or something like that is the pass mark in medicine. I have this realization that I have to sit this effing exam again and it's just going to take everything I've got again. I was like, "How can I do this again?" I went out and I had what I call the dark night of the soul where I'm laying on the couch naked crying because it was hot. I just felt so vulnerable and just sobbing, and my dear husband comes out and he doesn't know how to help me. It's something that I have to go through myself. This journey is something that I have to do. As a warrior, it's something you have to do yourself. You have to pick yourself up and go again when you suffer this immense disappointment.

I kept saying like "Spirit wants me to be here." I had to keep recognizing that. I wanted to give up. I sort of, "Fuck this or that. Well, I should just go back to being a healer. What am I even doing? This is ridiculous." But that was the thought I realized is that I was going into the exam with only half of me. It was like half of my arm had been cut off because, under the bed, my Shamanic drums been tied up.

I had disassociated myself from the whole knee, from the spiritual aspect of me. I was being disrespectful to the uncles who had given so much of their time and teaching to me because I thought that's what I needed to do to play the game. I let myself to open up, to embrace the healer, to reclaim my magic. Instead of the spiritual me standing in the shadows, she came home to my heart.

Angel: Basically, this has been the most non-straighty 180 ,and actually this massively poetic full circleness where you have just become and rebecome and died and re-emerged over and over again until finally stepping into this place where I'd like to say, even recently, within the last few months stepping out into social media, recognizing that you need to be seen in order for your mission and your message to move forward. Realizing this kind of, "Okay, so every fucking fear I've ever had about not being seen and being the Ninja and being super stealthy with my work and playing the game is going to be challenged now."

The workshop that you're creating, the ways you're being a lot more vocal about your beliefs and subsequently the people that are flocking to you and the professional experiences that are happening, I can imagine that 10 years ago you wouldn't even have believed that your work would have ended up being back to that first voice, that is you're going to be working with women and birthing people and babies, but this is where you are. You're like the Shamanic midwife versus what you thought you had to do before.

Even recently when you had your first experience supporting birth as a doula, as a gatekeeper, as a birth keeper, and then you just had another prenatal consultation just last week or something where it was just absolutely mind-bending. Are you feeling like the ways that you've challenged every single norm as a doctor is paying off? Are you feeling so excited about the ways that you are growing and the ways that you've honored that spirit guiding and where the future is taking you? Are you feeling relieved? Is there a sense of liberation there?

Danielle: Absolutely, there's a sense of liberation, but can I say that when you're standing on the edge and you realize that you've got to jump and you've got to make a big decision and leap, it's fucking scary. Failed the exam, realized I needed to bring the whole part of me, pull my drum out from under my bed, call the witch back to me, embrace it all, and then I pass my exam.

I'm a consultant now and then I was asked to become a medical educator by a regional training provider who trains general practitioners. Then I realized part of my mission is to start putting myself out there in the medical world.

The first time I talked about who it is I am, I was standing in front of about 150 people and a lot of them were GPs. I stood there and I'm like, my hands get hot, I travel in people's bodies, I pull stuff out. Pardon me, I was of course bleeding and I was like getting really emotional and cry. I looked in the audience and people were crying, and there was one beautiful doctor who was sitting in front of me and she's sitting right in front of me. She's like, "You got this, I could see her like just saying, "Yes, you've got this, you're amazing."

To be able to stand there in that truth and then realize because it's our persecution fears, we've all been burned at the stake before and here I am standing in front of the highest level that you can get in the medical world as a healer or as a doctor going, "I'm going to get burnt again," because I'm standing in front of these doctors saying that I travel in people's bodies and I did it. I survived. Some people were uncomfortable with it, those people with very scientific brains, which is fine, but it gives me credibility being part of this organization. I've been talked about in some medical books now.

Angel: That's the thing, one of my favorite quotes, it's a quote from me.

Danielle: [laughs]

Angel: Yes, I'm quoting myself. This is when you know you've reached a new echelon of reclaiming the witch, is you quote your fucking self. That is, the ways in which you lean into discomfort now are and is the exact way you create freedom for the people that come afterward. I think that when you are in that year of reclamation and coming face to face with previous persecution, and coming face to face at the crossroads where your potential in future is-- There's the fear of persecution right there, cockblocking you and it's like, "Okay, smash it," or leave in peace.

It is your duty, your responsibility, you have no choice, if you're going to pioneer a new paradigm, if you are going to change things, if you're going to create social impact, if you are going to remodel the ways in which we operate in terms of the medical system, because many doulas, many doctors, many midwives, many obstetricians are going to be listening to this and they need to hear this, is that there is no way that you can create that level of change unless you step into your true power, you reclaim that power and you very much own the discomfort.

Embrace the discomfort because that is how you create the freedom for people who come afterwards.

Imagine Danielle, what you are doing for people in your work by just being yourself, it's phenomenal. This is the thing is that we're perfectly positioned right now in 2019 to have that privilege where you can come online and you can find your coven, for lack of better words, in your collective and you can feel safe as you all share the same story.

We live in a place where right now there are still witches being burned in many countries. We are lucky to be in a place where we can still quite freely discuss how we feel. Why waste that being scared about registration? Why waste that being scared about anything else?

The amount of midwives I've worked with in the last year who are literally just giving their licenses and their registration back and it's like, "You know what? Fuck off man, this is not how I'm going to create the change. It's not by being scared anymore." You definitely honoring that because it is terrifying but liberating. That freedom only comes in that fear.

Danielle: The biggest thing for me as well was stepping back as a healer, putting myself out there again as a healer. I sat on that cliff for weeks, months going, "I need to step back into it and publicly that I'm a healer." It wasn't so bad like in the medical world because again, for me, I do it in an indigenous context. I don't know if you recall that back when I was talking about when I first had the dream and I left my body, there was a tower straddle, a man standing up in the background.

It turns out that he's one of my ancestral grandfathers who was talked about in this research team that went up through the Torres Straits, and he was a powerful sorcerer because the Ngangkari  those old men, they acknowledged me as Ngangkari but I couldn't call myself a Ngangkari because I hadn't gone through the initiation and the ceremony, but it's part of my ancestral lineage. The medical paradigm as long as it's in that context, then that's okay, but then for me, standing on that cliff face, again going, "I'm stepping back into my work as a healer was actually very--"

Angel: Almost fighting under the safety of bringing in that culture. That's precisely right.

Danielle: When I put my little shingle out going, "Oh, actually I'm offering shamanic healings again," it was very powerful and very liberating to be able to step into my work of what I love to do. You're right, when I have worked with the woman that I was in the birth room with her, was the most powerful, beautiful experience I've ever had because again, I was channeling that sacred birth energy and I'd had done some shamanic journeying beforehand and went up to this beautiful temple called The temple of Diana where I was shown certain things around how to anchor and hold that energy.

I just had this realization is that we're working alongside this energy all the time, how can we actively bring that into the birth room because everyone in that birth room, including the obstetrician, everyone recognized the energy.

Angel: Can I just say something on that? Before I knew that I was a healer, I thought I was crazy. I really honestly thought that I was crazy and I thought that I was crazy because of the company I kept. A lot of people will be listening and know deep within them that they have the ability to do X, Y, Z because it's intuitive. It's not like somebody dropped a book off on your lap at 14 years old and said, "Hey."

Basically, between the ages of 14 and 16 when it really ramped up for me, I was scared of what was transpiring.

Nobody in my life was supportive. God, they were not supportive, and I subsequently just literally through my tarot cards into the fire and walked away from it and very much shut off that part of myself. I actually like to say that I killed that part of myself, so I have these episodes in my life where at six years old, I killed the sexual energy of who I was, and then at 16 and I killed the witchy mystical energy of who I was. That very much had to do with the company I kept and how unsafe or safe I felt.

For the doulas listening, the midwives listening, it's the exact same notion as the birthing person coming undone if they feel safe enough to do so. It's like being in the company of a coach, the coach can only coach you if you feel safe enough and held enough and supported enough to blossom.

I met you and I had been around you several times, things started happening, basically, I want to say at the beginning of the year, and then eventually when March came along and you came to the Melbourne Doula training and you did the small shamanic journey for us, which I was in, I just thought I was going to lie down and have a nap, have a five-minute nap, just take a chill pill because I like naps.

Then I laid down obliviously and the drums have always been a gigantic part of my soul, they've been moving through me my entire life. I listen to a song and the first thing I'm thinking about is the drums and this, by the way, everyone has access to this, audibly it takes me to a place. There's something that happens for me where it's like poetry, it's like poetic reverberation inside of me, I become this timber.

Then when you started and you started speaking, all of a sudden the shift started happening, and I was like, "Okay, hold on a second, I just wanted to nap," and all of a sudden there is a snake crawling up my leg and I wasn't scared, I was turned on. That snake getting closer to my womb and my womb pounding and me trying to rationalize what was happening and still trying to fight this because I didn't feel safe enough and I'm supposed to be the teacher and I'm supposed to be facilitating and there are people there who are counting on me to hold space, and what is Danielle doing to me? Does Danielle know she's doing this to me, and all of these, wow, bang, bang bang thoughts.

By the way, I've found the sheet that I wrote of notes after that, not wait to show you. Then running to the back of the room and being like, "Okay, what the fuck just happened?" You coming to me and me having this come to Jesus moments where I was like, "Hold on a second, is this what it feels like to feel safe enough to come undone and become who I've always been meant to become?"

Then you bringing us back to the circle where we shared and hearing everybody's stories, and I'm talking about profound stuff, like people meeting their deceased twins who have come to say hello and just like one thing of all the things. Then you bringing us back into this new moon ritual where you're guiding us through this forest and all of my students are gigantic trees. I'm seeing the energy move through all of them, and my whole life I've been told that I heal with my hands, and that I'm a shape-shifter, that I'm sophisticated, a sexual instrument, all this stuff. Me knowing that I'm a really good lover, but not knowing why, and why is it that I'm good at all these different things? Just downplaying myself because I made everyone around me feel uncomfortable by being good at things, so I ate and I gained weight and I did the same damn thing you did to squash myself.

Almost I knew that the only way that I could stop being so vivacious and so alive was to literally contain myself in food and all the stuff. Then coming to this place where, "My goodness," we were at Seven Sisters Festival and I walked into this reading that I was not planning and her saying all this stuff which basically led to everything that happened afterward. She said, "You have something in your hands."

Then when you walked me through that forest, I could feel the energy of everybody in the room moving through my hands as if lava and lightning dancing and there's like ice bolts and beams of fire moving through my hands and me moving this through everybody in the room, and really starting to feel like I had taken 18 MDMA tablets, like, "What is happening here?" Feeling so alive. I felt like I was making love to every X-Men comic that I've ever read in my life because I'm obsessed with X-Men. Feeling like, "Oh my God, this is why I was so obsessed with X-Men," because I knew I've been having dreams about using my hands to do things. I have this recurring dream since I'm a child of me going [heaves] and feeling something and it getting stuck. This weird feeling of it getting stuck, and all of that coming undone with your guidance in that space where, of course, the rest of it's wild where all of a sudden, I take a part of everyone in the room and I move it into a circle until it's smaller and smaller to a seed. Then I impregnate myself with this seed, and at that very moment, a voice pops into my head that says, "You are going to birth women."

This coming home to myself that could have only happened with the company I keep and this is why a year ago I wasn't even planning to start a doula training. I started the doula training from the second I decided to do it to launch seven days later, to then serendipitously starting in-person trainings which I resisted for ages, and then every single person in these trainings making me feel safer to be myself and be myself.

Then meeting you and meeting a lot of people changed my life and then to that moment. Then since then, a catalyst of just what is happening? It is just too much almost at some points and I'll call you and I'll be like, "Danielle, what is going on here? Why did I see this? What is happening? Why am I hearing this? Thank you for making me feel safe enough to feel that way.

Hearing your backstory and how unsafe you felt to be yourself. How unsafe you felt and how you squashed yourself and how we do this to survive. Our brains are hijacked by the survival capacity which is, "Don't be cast out, don't be this, don't be that because people will not get you, keep you in the village and you'll be the crazy person and da-da-da." 

I love hearing this backstory, and I love that we have a platform to show people that, A, they're not crazy; B, the company you keep is everything; and C, the only really discernment or the only distinction keeping you from realizing and reclaiming and going tapping into this power that's sleeping, is you recognizing that the people around you and the shit you're reading and the things that you are keeping yourself involved in, is the only thing keeping you from stepping into that place.

This is what we're going to chat about when we run our Blood Mysteries Magic and Mayhem workshops which are going to be amazing, is the knowing of your body, your intuition, your bleed, those altars, those rites of passage which sounds so woo-woo as it comes, but actually it's just inner wisdom and knowledge that we've all been trapezing since the beginning of time.

I feel borderline devastated when I wake up some days and I'm just feeling the most psychic prophetic sexually charged orgasmic and thinking, "Where the fuck was I before this veil was lifted? Is everybody else sleeping? What do I need to do? Do I need to literally set myself on fire so that everybody pays attention to what I'm saying? Was everything that happened and the ways we were persecuted and the ways that we were killed, a prerequisite to how now we can be alive and be paid attention to?"

It's such a strange place to be, but also a place of privilege that I don't plan on wasting because I want to make people feel safe enough to feel and be themselves in the ways that you provided for me, and then all of that rant to then segue into saying back to the birth situation, is moving into that place and you making her feel safe enough to come undone with the spiritual and energetic stuff.

The conversation we had before about how seeding, many birth workers are going to be listening to this or mothers or parents or birth nerds and know about microbiome, who know about seeding, who understand, gut health and the flora and the fun, and all this stuff that feeds into it, and how we're making these great strides in terms of understanding that on a microbial level and what needs to be.

Danielle: Yesterday I was sitting there and I'm going off to this workshop. I was doing some research around breastfeeding microbiome and maternal stress and cortisol. Anyway and then this idea just dropped into me and said that because we call a baby when they're born immune naive, so the microbiome becomes populated through the vaginal seeding and breastfeeding and all of the other stuff.

Then I had this idea is that we're actually born or babies being born are spiritually naive. We actually have the capacity to be able to seed the spiritual armor or reinforcements that we need to bring this new way of people that we need to change the world. At the very point of conception, mothers have the capacity to start as we do change the epigenetics of the zygote or the developing baby, the epigenetics will change. The fallopian tubes actually send up the chemical receptors to start changing the epigenetics structure.

What happens if we consciously start thinking about changing our spiritual thoughts or really acknowledging the spiritual aspect of birthing, as birthing as a shamanic process, birthing as a sacred process. It just blows my mind because I was like, "Oh, my God, because when the baby is allowed to have the golden hour with the mother, they're actually spiritually naive. The neurons are developing at a million miles a second. All these things are happening. So we bring the baby up on to our heart chakra and they are being held in that energy. That's part of what the golden hour is about I believe.

Angel: People look at it linearly. I mean, for God's sake it's already just nauseating. We're only considering the golden hour within the last 10 years, but on the mainstream level, we won't even go there. It's not just gestational mothers who are having babies. We're talking about people who are not having babies vaginally, who are having babies by cesarean, adoption, surrogacy who perhaps look at their traumatic birth and look at the birth and the plans not going according to plan and paying attention to the linearness of it like, "Oh my God. I didn't get to do this, and that means I have to do the delayed cord clamping and I have to do the seeding you in terms of cesarean."

Absolutely, are these important conversations, but when you start looking and expanding beyond that and considering that your role as caretaker, as care provider, as parents, as the gardener, the landscaper, the everything that is the garden of your child's soul, you start to realize that seeding that energy energetically, spiritually it's so much more powerful than just the physical interface which we're discussing before. It's about looking at what can you do to take that little sentient being that's just popped into this world, this brand-new soul or old soul spiritually naive to seeding it in order for it to propagate and become everything that it is meant to be to change the world.

That literally just blew my mind when you said it because I was just thinking about, if we holistically that word is so buzzword, but you know what I mean? Holistically thinking about short, is vaginal spontaneous birth important? Abso-fuckin'-lutely, but the positive birth experience that can only be determined by the person living it, who therefore needs to positively wrap and love that child in lights in the days, months thereafter, the ways that they utilize that bubble, so let's move away from oxytocin and think about energetically what's happening there. The ways that they then move their child and themselves from spiritually naive to spiritually receptive is gigantic.

You have this unique opportunity and we have this unique opportunity to take the whole concept of mindful and conscious conception, and birth and parenting to a whole other level. We're talking about literally bringing in everything that is blood and sweat and tears and mother's warmth in the womb and the parents and turning it into this elixir that literally feeds these babies from the inside out, so that they can ripen that soul to realize that potential.

I just love that angle, because not only does it empower those who couldn't have the experience they want, who can't have the experience they want, who were robbed of that experience, who didn't know, et cetera, but we're talking about raising the human vibration to a whole other fucking level. This is, as birth workers who are challenging so many of the norms, so many of the doctors working in this, the nurses, everyone who knows within them, that they're being called to something beyond the linear hyper-masculine parameters of what mainstream birth is, this is something that you can do covertly. Just being aware of the energy and the light and how you can do that as the birth worker in that space is wow. Imagine the conversations you can have with the parents beforehand.

Danielle: It'll be no surprise to you, Angel, that I've actually developed a model around my nerdiness because I see myself as a birth Alchemist, so I'm the keeper of the crossroads between life, death, birth and rebirth, I was told that a long time by spirit a long time ago.

As a birth Alchemist, I am straddling the science and magic, and medicine, so I'm bringing those three worlds together. For my doula client, I've created a little model that we sort of go through where we're looking at the good old Venn diagram where you've got something around the physical aspects and the emotional aspects and where they intersect is actually the spiritual aspects the sacred birth, the yoni of power, where the baby's born through.

Every time we have a session, of course, I'm a nerd, I've got PowerPoints and all of that sort of stuff, but what we do is we actually start then we talk about the physical and the physiological aspects of birth, then we go into some emotional stuff and we do some fear releasing and whatever it is, we need to do and then we move into the spiritual aspects.

My client now knows her power animal that she'll be taking with her into the birth room. She is aware of how it is that we will be working to change the energy in the birth room and part of the thing is that we change the molecules of her amniotic fluid. I gave her a little ritual and a meditation, where she was actually able to tune in, and with her hands, be able to imbue the baby with love and to change the molecules to amplify that. If you think about all of the fluids that we have in our body, our mucus plug is released before we have a baby, blood as you said before, our tears, we have the capacity to change that, to consciously change that and that is part of us bringing this ritual and ceremony back into birthing, this is part of the big work we're here to do.


Angel: I'm literally brain-gasming, you have no idea right now because all I want to do is cry, scream, sing, lick your face, so you know obviously Dr. Masaru Emoto, the dude who basically spoke so much about positive energy, negative energy and simply speaking to something and that molecule being affected by that energy. We've seen this with plants with apples, the whole kit and caboodle. For those of you who don't know about him, please go Google it, you'll lose your mind.

Hearing you say this right now, we actually have the scientific evidence to back this. If you're listening to this right now, and you're like what do you mean you are going to put a smile on my amniotic fluid? This is for real, real, so if you take the logic behind this, you could literally, and this is the power of mindset of everything of manifestation.

If you think about that you are primarily made out of water and then if you think about the fact that when you are pregnant, hello, that's even more fluid coursing through everything you are and everything that is your baby's body, wouldn't it not therefore, be absolutely logical to use words and intention to alter the molecules of the fluid, the water of life coursing through both of your bodies? It's just the ultimate spell.

The fact that you even went to a place in your brain where you're like, "How am I going to change the makings of the amniotic fluid in order to supercharge this child?" It blows my mind, it's just so incredible because this challenges-- Forget our conversations and controversy on delayed cord clamping, how's this going to be for when we start having conversations about let's be serious here, the energy you bring into the room, the intention or non-intention you bring into the birth space, the ways we treat these rites of passage as sacred or non sacred, are absolutely affecting us on a molecular level.

This is a fact and so, this seeding just makes it so poetic and so gardenesque and so powerful. You know what I love, Danielle? I love that you became a doula and I know that a lot of people will be like, "She was a doctor and she became a doula, isn't it the other way around? Don't doulas want to be midwives and want to be doctors."

There's a lot of doctors, paramedics and nurses people have come through my program and it's very important that we understand that this is not uncommon, so that in itself is challenging the hierarchy.

Secondly, I love that you are so progressive and beyond your years and intuitive but non assuming. People would meet you and they would have no idea beyond your amazing curly wild woman hair what the hell goes on in you. I can't even imagine meeting you as my GP, and being like, "Oh, hello, woman with the glasses and funky hair." You challenge every fucking stereotype humanly possible.

Again, and I say this to all my guests, because I really do choose people intentionally to be on this show, you give me hope that humanity isn't fucked, you genuinely do. It makes me feel like, "Okay, this work matters, you're not a weirdo for pursuing a career in doula work, you're not a weirdo for being super intense and passionate and emotional and sensitive and witchy. You're not a weirdo for wanting things and being so furious and being so warm. You're not a weirdo for feeling and being everything that you are. It's like your daughter and son unscrewed the future is bright, it's such a [sighs] I'm so happy right now, I want to just crack at the inside of my badge and my heart and be like, "Thank you."

Danielle: I work very much on the premise because I had to sit there and think of a framework. I do what I do, my hands get hard, I can travel in people's bodies, I can fucking see energy there, I can pull shit out, how is that a thing? What's the model there? So thankfully, Einstein came up with E=mc2, so energy and matter are the same and interchangeable.

Angel: Thanks, Einstein.

Danielle: Thanks, Einstein. We are a physical body, and we're an energetic body, the same and interchangeable, so that's what I'm fucking hanging my hat on besides all my crazy models that I'm thinking about, and how we can help people, particularly that postpartum, from point of conception to two years is such an important time in a young baby's life, in a young toddler, but also the parents.

Hold on to your panties, Angel, what I love about the idea of spiritual seeding, is that the partner has the ability to be able to be responsible and to be active in that seeding.

Angel: Yes, that's what I mean about, it's the partners, the non-gestational parent, it's the individuals who adopted, the individuals who surrogate. This is a massively empowering principle. When we look at the word empowering, again, another buzzword, I love it, it's so inclusive. It really does give people the power to take control. You know what? Fucking accountability, accountability of the ways you act and the energy you bring to your birth space and your parenting is yours to own.

If your child grows up, and yes, absolutely all of these things happen and it is your responsibility to treat your children, babies as sentient beings with the capacity to absorb, receive and give emotional intelligence, it's such a beautiful concept.

Danielle, where the hell can people find you? Work with you? Reach you? You're also going to be teaching basically all of my doula training events because you're not going anywhere, you're screwed, thank you very much. Then we're going to be hosting some stuff together. How can people find you, hire you if they wanted you to be their doula? Where can we find you?

Danielle: I am on my website, drdaniellearabena.com and on Instagram with the same handle. I will be trying to get over my dislike of being on camera. I think that's part of a spiritual thing that's happened for me in a past life, so that's one of my next little hurdles to jump over.

Angel: Good thing you're friends with me, mate.

Danielle: I know, fuck. Excitedly, I'm very excited for our world tour in Ireland next year, 31st of October.

Angel: No words, everyone put that on your calendars. You have a year and a half to plan. Danielle and I are going to be heading to Ireland and Scotland and creating something that will literally blow your minds taking place over Saemon and Halloween or wherever it is you are and however it is you want to call it, but that's going to be a bit exciting.

Danielle: Yes, it's going to be excellent. I do healings, so I can do advice, Skype and I also do Menstrual Wellness Consult. That's another big important part of me. Remember when I said in my dream my finger got pricked by the three Torres Strait island women. That was actually part of my initiation into being a blood priestess. I've had some crazy-ass shamanic journeys with Sekhmet and I've been initiated as a blood princess.

Part of my workaround menstrual wellness is listening to what your blood is telling me. Is it telling me about your hormonal stuff? We've got to acknowledge that it's a whole package. It springs the emotional, spiritual, and physical aspects. When you bleed you have to listen to what your blood's telling you. That's part of what we do. There's wellness package shamanic stuff. Let me be a doula. Let me come in. I'll hold a couple of sessions with you. Get your nerd on because that's a reason I became a doula, Angel, if you're talking about systems is that I realized that I don't fit well in the 15-minute medicine model. I want to be able to spend time with my patients. I want to be able to create heart-centered connections.

I want to be with you and the goddess and the priestess that you are when you're opening up your sacred temple and giving birth. I want to acknowledge you as a priestess. The goddess is in you and you're birthing a sentient being. That's what I want to do.

Angel: I don't even believe that I'm sitting here right now having this conversation. It's just unbelievable for me to believe that like a lifetime spent being the rebel without a cause and then becoming the rebel with the causes as Jane and I spoke about. To step into this part of life in such good company in a country that I wasn't even planning on ever visiting, let alone having children and living in and then creating work, being a doula, which was never even on my cards.

I can truly barely believe that I'm having this conversation right now. I really cannot, Danielle. I cannot thank you enough for what you do for me and what you continue to do for me. I can't wait to take over the world with you. By take over the world, all I mean is go into each one of your little blooms and just give it a tingle and activate your power. I cannot wait to be doing this. I can't wait to see where the conversation leads moving forward.

I know that you will have found this podcast to be unbelievably inspiring and I'm not surprised if it has instigated some level of curiosity as to the lives that you have lived before and what you are carrying epigenetically and what your blood is calling you to do now. If you are feeling pulled, for lack of better words, please get in touch with Danielle. She is the woman to see.

Danielle: Thank you very much.


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