Walking Into The Abyss and Finding Your “Hell Yes” with Hayley Carr

Posted by Angela Gallo on

I’m talking all things badass rebels today and I’ve got a particularly hot rebel to introduce you to. Welcome to the podcast the “I don’t give a f*@k, I’m doing what feels good,” transformational, mind-bending super freak coach, Hayley Carr. Hayley has been my leadership coach for over a year and has completely transformed my life. Before I met her I was in this scarcity mindset, this peddling too hard getting nowhere fast mentality. Hayley coached me, took hold of all that was holding me back, made me realise how comical most of it was, and transformed me in ways I can’t even explain. I am forever grateful for her spirit and her friendship, and can’t wait to dive into this conversation today.

Hayley Carr is a 9 X Karate World Champion, and Life and Leadership Coach for Superfreaks: Intuitive, sensitive, high-performing, ambitious powerhouse humans who are on a mission to raise the tide & affect the world by bringing their vast array of weirdness, gifts and humour to the forefront and break the mould.

Based on a farm on the East Coast of Australia, Hayley is in the business of happiness. On a mission to end violence against women through cultivating world peace, via feminine leadership & environmental sustainability, her path is to support these super freaks to become powerful, authentic leaders – through doing less, being more, operating from a state of ease, and creating the impossible on a daily basis.


  • Using your weaknesses as your strengths
  • Being a highly sensitive person
  • Learning to listen to your intuition and inner voice
  • Look at what you’re really avoiding doing and confront it straight up
  • Transformation isn’t instant, it takes considerable work, thought and action
  • Self-sabotage is a form of procrastination
  • Up-levelling from your destruction
  • Jumping into what scares you, and thriving
  • Hayley’s three golden nuggets to catapult your success


Website – https://hayleycarr.tv/
Instagram – https://www.instagram.com/hayleycarr.tv/
Facebook – https://www.facebook.com/hayleycarr.tv
LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/hayley-carr-international/
VIP Superfreak Community – https://hayleycarr.tv/join-hayley-carrs-community
Youtube channel – https://www.youtube.com/user/hayleycarrtv

Free self-coaching guide
– https://hayleycarr.tv/self-coaching-gift
Fierce Salon 9 month coaching – https://hayleycarr.tv/fierce-salon-coaching
The business of you – https://hayleycarr.tv/business-of-you



Angel: Hello everybody, it is me Angela Gallo and you are tuning into my podcast Slaying The Status Quo in Total Fucking Style. An audio sensory feast that I have curated explicitly to celebrate every girl, woman, and non-binary powerhouse impacting the world, changing their communities and doing a heap of good simply by showing up as their most expressed selves and challenging the status quo. So buckle up, hold on to your womb, your panties or whatever the hell it is you’re wearing including your birthday suit because it’s going to be one hell of a ride.

Hello, everybody. You are tuning in to yet another episode of Slaying the Status Quo in Total Fucking Style. What a joy ride it has been to be meeting and speaking to so many disruptors. I think that we should just rename this podcast, Bad Bitches Doing Things They’re Not Supposed To Do, or Really Cool Badasses Doing Things That They’re Told They Shouldn’t Do, But They Do Anyway And Then They’re Kicking Ass and Then Nobody Says, ” I was wrong.”

That’s what I think I need to name this podcast because the people coming through here are so exquisitely disruptive it makes me proud to be a rebel.

In fact, challenging the status quo in total fucking style, it’s just become really clear to me that it’s just about being a really hot rebel. That’s really what it’s about to do.

I want to welcome the guest today, one of the hottest rebels I know. The pixie, the Tinkerbell, a fuck-you-I’m-going-to-do-what-feels-good and I’m going to get the best results from it, Hayley Carr. Hayley has been my leadership coach for over a year. I met her in the most serendipitous of ways. She didn’t have a huge social media presence whatsoever and I heard about her because my best friend, Tessa, hired her. Tessa joined her Fierce Salon, which is essentially an online group coaching opportunity that she runs. Tessa kept coming back to me with this like second-hand information and the second-hand information was fucking changing my life. All I kept thinking about was if the second-hand information is changing my life this hard, maybe I need to contact this girl.

I really resisted all types of coaching for a long time because I was a coach myself. I knew a lot of shitty coaches, unethical coaches. I have never really resonated with any level of therapy, any level of counseling. I really just have been my own best friend in terms of evolutionary cycling. The shit that I was hearing about Hayley and the way she did things was so profound. My soul was screaming at me to get in touch with her and so I did.

What ended up happening was inviting this individual into my life. It makes me cry just thinking about it because she challenged everything for me. She challenged me. She challenged the ways that I saw what it meant to coach. She challenged the ways in which I see the world. She challenged the philosophy behind everything that I do.

Without further ado, let us welcome Hayley, motherfucking, Carr.


Hayley Carr: Thank you for that intro.


Angel: Of course, how would that make you feel? [crosstalk] I meant every single word so you better lock that up. Thank you for being here, my love. Us getting together for a phone call feels impossible, so thank you for just making this happen for me on a beautiful, sunny Sunday morning.

Before we kick this off, Hayley, I want you to introduce yourself. Who the fuck are you and why should anybody be paying attention to Hayley Carr?

Hayley: You know what, this question is one of the hardest questions I can ever answer.

Angel: What?

Hayley: Let’s kick it off like– Let’s go right into the defense, right? Truthfully, the way I answer this question like I think a lot of people like us Ang. When someone says, “Hey, what do you do?” You’re like, “Um.”


Hayley: Let me count the ways.


Hayley: Who am I today? I’m not the same person I was yesterday, right?

Angel: Yes.

Hayley: I like to call myself an international womxn of mystery who runs the planet reminding powerful, sensitive super freaks how fucking powerful they are.

Angel: Stop, stop it now.


Angel: You know what a sucker I am for taglines, right? If I met you in an elevator and you told me that, it would be very difficult for me to consensually- Look I would just like, “Excuse me, let me lick the inside of your brain, let me lick your eyeballs, let me lick your ears,” like, “Fuck, Hayley.” Sorry, please go on I’ll try not to interrupt you.

Hayley: It’s one of those things where it depends on who I’m talking to. I make up things. Sometimes I make up little stories about what I do to people. It’s sort of like a filter sometimes. If they don’t get it, I’m like, “That’s fine, you’re not my person, that’s cool.” It’s literally different with everybody, but that is what I feel like on the inside of me that’s what I do. That’s my superpower.

Angel: The nature of this whole podcast was highlighting the amazing, incredible impact of individuals who are disrupting, rebelling in their own rights. If you were to narrow down the ways in which you exquisitely challenge the status quo in style, Hayley, how would you describe that?

Hayley: My life, if I had to really look back on everything I’ve ever done– There’s a quote by Albert Camus. It’s something along the lines of “Our greatest act in life is to become so rebellious that your very life is an act of rebellion”. I believe in that so much because the way that I disrupt the status quo is just through the way that I live. I’ve been taught my entire life into everything that I have done, that you have to push, you have to strive, you have to drive, you have to go harder.

I abided by that and it got me really far becoming nine-time world champion, actually eight times. Then I burned the fuck out for three years. I was in bed. I was sick. I got told, “You’re never ever healing from this. You’re never going to come back, never going to be out to live a normal life.” To me, that was a death sentence that the doctors gave me, but I let it liberate me. I slide the status quo by healing myself in a way that was completely against the grain as well.

I went, “Well, you know what, you’ve told me that this has come out of nowhere and there’s no way of getting rid of it. I believed that if it came out of nowhere it can go back there and maybe my body is trying to actually tell me something. Doctors said I was crazy. I told them I would never see them again and I didn’t.

As I healed, I learned that everything I have based my life on up until then was not actually suited to somebody like me. I didn’t know growing up that I was a highly sensitive person. I got told I was too much. I was too emotional. I was too sensitive. I was too dramatic. I was overreacting. I was hyperactive. I was all of these things that were just too much in a word.

I felt like there was something wrong with me for such a long time. It was through healing from that illness that I realized, I just tucked into my intuition. I just started listening to what I really, really wanted and I let that voice be the voice of guiding me. I let that voice be the boss. Not the voice of my ego that said, “No, you have to push harder. You have to try a bit harder. You have to go harder.” That’s when my life completely transformed.

Learning that high sensitivity is actually not something that is bad, but actually a superpower, learning that for myself was first of all it’s what healed me from the darkest time in my life, that was just the beginning of the hard times, I would tell you because I was really entrapped in a life that was not of my own design. It was a life that I became really good at being something that wasn’t me just to try and fit the fuck in. Like I pushed myself. I became a nine-time world champion. It was like, who the fuck am I trying to impress? What’s this going to do? Because I still walk away at night and I’m unhappy. I’m crying myself to sleep.

It was learning to actually listen to that voice that said, “Hey, babe, you want to travel. You want to actually help people and go around the world and travel. It’s not going to happen the more you dig in and think if I just get this next achievement, if I just do this next course, if I just become this next thing that people would approve.” Now, I finally have permission to do the thing that I really wanted to do. My little secret mission, that’s not really a secret. This is what I do with everybody is I find, I seek out these little secret tricks. We uncover what it is that they think is absolutely wrong with them and we turn it into their greatest fucking superpower and they take off. They just absolutely take off.

Angel: Every cell of you reverberates with challenging the status quo. Like I feel truly within my bones that if anybody listens to this podcast, if they only take away one thing and that one thing is that the parameters and the constructs and the ideas, the forced vision that is placed on you is a lie and that, in fact, falling in line is the worst thing you could do for yourself. Then I can die happy and this podcast has served the purpose, because the idea is not rebelling for the sake of rebelling.

This isn’t about challenging the status quo with no cause.

It is about knowing within you that your truest self thrives outside of what the world tells you you need to be doing or the person you need to be or how hard you need to be working or how you need to feel. I really believe that that has been the most, I guess, liberating for lack of finding something else that you’ve given me is understanding that when you just give yourself the space to do what feels good versus tread around in this fucking limbo purgatory of, “My mom wants me to do this and school says this and the church tells me this…” It’s really wildly transformative.

What are daily practices perhaps or what is one of the many defining moments for you where you realized, like, “You know what? Fuck off. I’m going to do what works for me.”

Hayley: It all happened at once the big one, but it was looking at what I was really, really, really avoiding. It’s really hard to explain this and sometimes for people to comprehend it without experiencing it. We can come up with some little tiny ways. If you’re listening to this, and you don’t quite know where to start, we can come up with a tiny little way you can begin. I had to start looking at what I was avoiding.

At the time, I remember it was 2007, I was in a relationship that was headed south, unfortunately, with someone that I loved. There was a lot of pressure riding on me, continuing to be the person that I was because I was hooked into an entire world with my martial arts. I had risen to the top. I felt like, I don’t know if this was the actual truth from other people, but I felt like there was so much expectation on me to continue being this world champion, good girl, that showed up, that did her thing, that was smiling and happy and kept winning these tournaments and inspired people in that way, but I was deeply unhappy.

I was studying interior architecture. I finished my university degree. I was working one of the best jobs in Sydney and I was desperately unhappy. Cried myself to sleep most nights. I don’t think I’ve ever actually said that in a public forum like this. Like until 2 AM, I would cry myself to sleep. I was living off coffee, I was shoving equals in my coffee every day to make it sweet because I didn’t even fucking like coffee. I was drinking it down like three cups a day, which is so not good for a highly sensitive person. We don’t need any more stimulation. We feel so stimulated by the world.

I realized at that point. My friend passed away. I lost a friend in a snowboarding accident. It was such a pivotal time for all of us, all of his friends, because his mother said at his plaque, “Please don’t be sad.” Oh my God, I’m getting emotional. She said, “Please don’t be sad for him. His name is Jeremy. I’ll bring him into this space.” She said, “Please don’t be sad for Jeremy. Go on and live in his honor.” All of us, our lives changed after that moment. I swear to you, Ang.

I went away to celebrate him on my own. I went to Byron Bay, it was the first time I’d ever been away by myself on a holiday. I took myself to Byron Bay for two days. I cried, I wept. At one point, I just had these feelings like people describe these moments. I always wanted to experience one. Then I did. It was like my tears were coming from the back of me. The whole back of my body lit up. I was wearing one of those skate helmets that were too big for my head and I was riding along on a hired bicycle along the beach. I’m weeping like ugly crying. Crying along the beach.

I started talking to myself, I was like, “What the fuck is this about? This is so embarrassing. What is going on here.” I just felt my body and this voice came in and she said, “Babe, you need to go. You need to be on your own. You need to do this on your own. You need to be independent. You need to go. Now is the time. You need to go traveling now.” Then, my tears came from the front of me. When you’re anxious and you’re sad, because what that meant was I had to give up everything that I had. I had to walk away from this relationship that I was in with somebody who I loved very much. I was so invested in his relationship. He had cancer, he was going through treatment.

I felt like the world’s worst fucking person. I thought that 50,000 people who knew us as a couple were going to hate me and think I was the biggest bitch ever, but the truth is the relationship wasn’t working and I knew he was going to be okay. It was the hardest thing I’d ever done. I really had to face what I was avoiding. I’m not kidding, it took me a year and a half to take action on that realization but it never left me.

I’m shaking as I say this because this is very public. I’ve literally never said this out loud, even before the way that this went down, but I had to trust in that voice. It was scary. I built up my whole life around all of this. I had to walk away. It was messy. It was uncomfortable. I didn’t know what I was doing. I thought I was stupid. I quit my job. My boss laughed in my face. I said, “I’m becoming a life coach.” She said, “Who the fuck is going to listen to you? You’re like 20 something. What life experience do you have?” I didn’t have an answer. It was awkward.

Then I quit my job and she was like, “You’re an idiot. This is a recession right now. You’re so lucky to have a job and you’re walking away from it.” I got read the riot act, from my boss.

Then this relationship, it didn’t fall apart, it was falling apart, but I was the one who ripped the band-aid off and said, “Look, this has to end.” I had nowhere to go. I moved into a shack at the bottom of an apartment block that my family-owned. I lived there for three months.

I gave away everything I owned. I went to the beach every day and just sat there. I still coached my clients, but I knew that there was a massive transition coming. I told everybody that I was longer competing in world titles anymore. I disappointed my family, my friends, the competitors who wanted to kick my ass, or try, the people who were looking at me as my students, who wanted me to coach them there. I felt like I was disappointing everybody left, right and center. You got to know, I felt like the world’s biggest fuck-up at this time. I just knew this is little voice that was like, “No, we can’t go on like this anymore. Not one single day.”

Angel: The truth is, it’s the voice of the true self. In fact, I just want to relate everybody to the Napoleon Hill stuff. Of course, Hayley is the one that told me about Napoleon Hill. We’re going to get to that in a bit, but the idea is your true self versus your non-true self and your drifting self versus your non-drifting self and how your true self will come out in moments of total tumultuous, arduous circumstances where you’re like, “That’s it. I’m rock bottom.” In that chasm, that voice comes out and is like, “Listen, this is where you have to go.”

It’s interesting because the trust is a byproduct. It’s almost like “Hold on. I didn’t make that up. I know where my intuition is pulling me right now. I know what my instinct is telling me.” The fact that it took you a year and a half to take action and also to do so in a way that was so grossly against everyone in the realms of your competition family and your actual family and your relationship. You literally defied every single parameter that was stifling you, you had to confront. No shit it took you that long.

Hayley: Well, I had to blow up my life in a way. For anyone who’s listening who’s thinking, “I couldn’t do that. There’s no way,” but you know, there’s that voice inside of you can’t deny it. It’s solid. It’s quiet. It’s there every single day. You cannot deny it. It’ll bring you to tears. It’s what you think about at three o’clock in the morning, when you’re crying yourself to sleep. That’s what I did. It’s what I journaled about for hours every single day.

I tried to reason the voice that was coming up every single day. I tried to switch it off. I was like, “No, I’m lucky. I should be grateful. This man is incredible and I love him. What am I doing? What am I thinking? Am I I crazy? Do I need therapy? Maybe there’s something wrong with me,” and I reasoned with it. The truth is, for people like us, when we hear this call, and I say this to everyone, “Just trust your timing. If you know that there’s something you need to do, you’re going to fucking do it. You don’t have to rush yourself. If it takes a year and a half, that’s a year and a half, that it took for like 100 years that it’s not happening anymore.”

We have to trust in our timing and embrace our pace. It was not an easy time, but looking back, it’s the best thing I ever did. It was good for both of us. I’m talking about the relationship specifically, but it’s been good for everyone. It was actually my perception of what people thought of me that was holding me back, not so much the actuality of it. The truth was, so many people in my life were really proud of me for doing something that none of them had been willing to do.

Angel: That’s the thing too right here, is that so much of this anxiety. We have over 80,000 thoughts filling our heads every single day and most of those are stress and worry about an unsubstantiated reality. It’s an idea that doesn’t even fucking exist. We create these scenarios that might happen, most likely won’t happen. We start to realize that, in fact, the people in which we thought would be most disappointed or most confronted or most angry, are often the ones that we liberate with our own actions.

Every time that I thought that I was going to disappoint somebody, or I was going to perhaps invite their judgments into my circle, whatever that might be, it’s often the person that I end up inspiring the most. “How ironic is that, you dummy? You should have just done this a year ago, because you thought they’d be angry and you ended up inspiring them to go on and seek their own happiness.”

It’s just interesting the ways we hold ourselves back in the- I call this the art of self-sabotage. It’s not even like it’s half-assed. This is a job that I don’t like doing, so I don’t do it well. When we sabotage, we sabotage hard. Self-sabotage is so meticulously performed. It’s almost ridiculous because then when you look back, and you think, “Wow.” I’m sure you can attest to this, but like thinking about who was I when I was staying up at three o’clock in the morning worrying about something that right now is not even fractionally important to me, who was I in that moment? Why was I thinking that shit?”

Hayley: This strategy that we call self-sabotage, I used this. This is probably a way that we can talk about Slaying the Status Quo. You can look at all the ways that you self-sabotage right now. This is what I said, looking at what I’m avoiding doing. Because when you look at what your self-sabotaging yourself in and I didn’t even like to use that word because I like to turn that into a strategy for freedom. This is what you and I have done, by the way, together.

When we look at what we’re avoiding, and we make up all these stories about why we can’t exactly what you said, we have those thousands and thousands and thousands of thoughts every day and we justify them. When you feel the feelings of those thoughts at the very extreme of them and then those feelings come into our body in the form of anxiety, which is just as playing out a scenario in our unconscious brain for it to go wrong. Then we feel the feelings of it going wrong before it’s even happened. Then we stash ourselves. We can’t take one step forward. Instead, you can open yourself up and go, “Okay, what’s this thing I’m avoiding?”

If you just face it. If you walk straight up to that person that you think you’re going to disappoint the most and have the most uncomfortable fucking conversation with them that you’ve ever had, all for the sake of this vision that you’re holding and the voice that’s inside of you, that’s actually how you liberate yourself.

Angela: The things that I call self-sabotage and now I literally say, “How can you make love to your worst-case scenario today? How can you dance with the devil that you’ve created in your mind right now? How can you possibly go to the thing that you feel nauseously uncomfortable about and say yes to a right now because you taught me to do that.” It’s okay if this is scaring the shit out of me right now. It’s most likely an invitation from the universe to up level. I’m not going to up-level in the place that’s safe. I’m going to up-level in the place that’s nauseatingly uncomfortable.

This self-sabotage for me is really just a delay. It’s a level of procrastination and it also serves as a light in that shadow. It’s like, “Hello, your highest potential is residing in this shadow layer 14. You have created a strategy to avoid going to shadow level, whatever.” Let me just make this very clear that I’m going to highlight this and bring you here and throw everything in your life.

Really that just fucking plays in so beautifully to everything that I’ve learned and why was naming my book, well, my memoir, which is how the universe took me from “I have no fucking idea what I’m doing” to “exactly where it is I need to be.” This self-sabotage inside of that is just procrastination, really, and a huge flashlight into what you should be doing. You call that an invitation to free yourself.

I think that a lot of people listening to this right now are going to resonate so damn hard with expectations people have of you, expectations you have of other people, expectations people have of your work, of your love, of your laugh, of your life, the ways that perhaps you feel stifled as a mother, as a person, as a business owner, the ways that you are so desperately wanting to radically change the landscape of your life, but you are also avoiding detonating the same bomb that’s going to free you.

A lot of the up-leveling comes in that destruction. This is why so much for me comes back to the re-birthing through everything. The Phoenix for me, it’s the dragon’s mouth, it’s the flames. It’s the being obliterated in order to become what I meant to be and you helped me to do that so deeply. There are no words for me to describe that. It’s important that everybody listening understands unequivocally when they look at me and when they look at you and they’re thinking, “How did they do that,” they must be so happy.

Well, that’s easy because they’re pretty or that’s easy because of this. That was a great journey and all easy for them to say. They don’t have this to do. That I don’t entertain any level of that conversation because I know that Hayley and I are the people who worked our fucking asses off. I don’t mean literally. I mean inside inner work we slug, we were torn apart and we weren’t picked apart by the vulture of circumstance and by the calling of our truest self to become who it is we are now.

The key here, discernment is I need everyone to understand that the only way that you are going to lean into the boldest expression of yourself is doing everything but fall in line. The only way that we are going to access your ultimate freedom, your self-expression, the way it feels to be truly alive, the way it feels to find your voice, the way it feels to show up in a world where you feel just so proud and grateful to be living in the skin that is yours is by challenging every damn status quo and norm that is laid at your feet. A lot of people look at chains as if it’s something that somebody else puts on you and it’s not.

This is why I just got the recent tattoo that I have. The chain link and the barbwire and right ankles because you start to realize that the only reason that you couldn’t fly is that you literally castrated the wings from your angel body. The only reason that you couldn’t grow and rocket into the universe is because you change yourself to the floor. You do that every single day by saying yes to things you don’t want to say yes to, by doing the things that don’t feel good. When you start just simply implementing small acts of rebellion that involve, as Hayley says, is that a hell yes or is that a hell no? That breaks the chains.

That frees you, that gives you your wings back and then you get to the place. Hayley and I feel like people avoid the inner work because it’s embarrassing and I know that I felt embarrassed for so long because I felt like surely I’m not that much of a numbskull. Literally, this will go on in my head. I’m like, “Wow, this is fucking embarrassing.” I remember even when we started unpacking, I’m going to try to build that in a second, but patterns.

The ways that we show up over and over and over again based on limbic imprinting or birth or because of what happened to us in childhood and the ways that we actually do sabotage ourselves with those patterns or the ways we chase comfort in the most miserable circumstances, it’s embarrassing.


Angel: Also the challenging the status quo part and the rebelling against what the world where you want to view is ugly. It’s ugly. It hurts and it’s tears and it’s mortifying and all of the things, but no guts, no glory. Do you know what I mean?

Hayley: Yes. I have to really honor you in this moment because if anybody is looking at you right now and thinking you are the bravest, like you’re just so out there and you don’t give a fuck, like you have done so much work to get there. You are the epitome of somebody who has gone to not just like what would be a little bit uncomfortable, but like what is the extreme of where I think I cannot go right now. I’m going to start there. That’s what you did. Oh, you are so inspiring to me. People look at you and they think, “Oh my goodness, maybe she was an overnight success. Maybe she was like this her whole life.”

Of course, you would know deep inside you that this was always going to be you your entire life. There’s like this unavoidable period of discomfort. When I say discomfort, it’s more like disgusting, ugly, crying, uncomfortable. Who am I? I question everything in the world. I’m blowing up my life, like that period. That’s not avoidable for people who are going to be out there in the world doing something. That’s the work, right? We do everything we can to avoid it.

We think, “Maybe I can do it nicely only by censoring myself 10% and I’ll still get away with it.” No. Because one thing I learned from you about social media and the way we have visible as visionaries who cannot even sense yourself 1% or your people will not find you. You will not have the impact on those people.

I believe that it doesn’t mean that you’re going to blow up your life. Trust me, when you’re in it, when you’re actually blowing things the fuck up, it doesn’t feel like it every day because you come back to the moment you’re like, “Well, I’m still okay. I’ve got two hands. I’ve got my legs. I’m feeding myself. I’m just getting through this. This is what we do. We just get through things.

When you are willing to blow up your life that extremely, that’s when you experience the gifts of what is on the other side. It doesn’t mean that you’re necessarily going to lose everything. In fact, sometimes it means it’s when you’ve got everything to gain and you don’t lose anything, but it’s the perception because what we’re really ever only doing is fighting against the past paradigm that we’ve been existing in, that we made up ourselves.

We have been existing within in our subconscious brain. The moment that you change that for yourself within you, you start to experience what that feels like and looks like and actually is in the physicality, in your physical world around you, the physical world will actually change once you have changed it on the inside of you. It’s that willingness to go through the thing that you’re avoiding, to look at what is scaring you, to look at the extremes of where you think you will be judged the most, what you fear the most and starting there and being really gentle with yourself.

It doesn’t have to be that you beat yourself over the head with it. Please don’t, in fact. No, that’s never what we do. We do end up blowing off our lives. We begin there and we start very gently looking at what we avoid and just leaning into it and going there and having an uncomfortable conversation, calling ourselves out and being willing to be vulnerable and just watch what happens because life unfolds very differently to the way that you think it’s going to unfold in your faithful mind.

Angel: I just have such intense memories of feeling everything that could have gone wrong did go wrong and everything, in fact, things that I hadn’t even anticipated would go wrong went wrong and feeling so destitute within myself. I just remember having this conversation with you at the beach and looking outside at the storm. You’re like, “Angela, how do you want to feel?” We went through this at your retreat as well, like, “How do you want to feel?” I just want to feel the world can throw me absolutely anything and I will feel unwavering in myself, unwavering in my mission, in my message. Just not so much be bulletproof, but certainly be bullshit proof and being.

This is everything that I teach now but like so solidly anchored in self-belief that absolutely anything could try their very fucking best sure, go for it to dissuade me and it would be futile. Thinking in those moments like, “How am I going to do this? I have $13 in my bank account,” or “How am I going to survive this? I haven’t slept in three days. I’m a mom. I have these dreams.

What am I going to do? I’m trying to find myself. I’ve disappointed everyone here. I disappointed everyone there. What are they going to think of me? How am I going to pick myself back up again, while I need to still keep my children alive and pay the bills?”

I remember having this conversation where we literally spoke about becoming the ocean versus feeling like this sail ship and the victim of the storm and the tattered sales in the wind and realizing that in that steadfastness of the ocean were all these secrets that I needed to allow whispered into my ears understanding that I am the fucking ocean and that in that, there are equal parts fierceness, and depth, and mystery, and intrigue, and absolute chaos, and an ecosystem that none of us will ever understand.

For me, being in that place and realizing that the only way that I was going to get through to the other side, the only way that I was going to ride the ultimate wave, the ultimate high, was to literally jump into the deep end was to go to the darkest, deepest, bluest part of the ocean, and find myself completely deprived of all senses to literally find myself in a place where I could hear the sound of my true self echoing from the chamber inside me, the beast that I caged with my own hands begging me to be let out.

That could only happen once I lost myself completely and pulled myself apart from all of the noise that was distracting me and clouding me from hearing the voice of the person who was calling me out to safety on the other side. I really believe so fiercely know that you cannot be a person who wants to create impact and wants to be a visionary and wants to be reaching in philanthropy and doing good in the world and moving everyone around you, unless you have earned that right.

That rite of passage comes from being seen and fucking every fear you have. Not only fucking every fear you have but the climaxing hand of your fear and understanding what it means to really show up in the world and allow yourself to show up even when you’re surrounded by a cloud of debris. Even when you are ankle-deep in tears, and even when you have zero dollars to your name, and even when you have 101 different reasons not to be showing up as you, because the biggest disservice that we can do to ourselves is lying to ourselves.

If you know within yourself at the secret most secret part of you, the deepest part of you, that you are not living in a place of honesty and alignment and you have not challenged every bullshit norm and every story and every pattern that you’ve subscribed to, you cannot call yourself a change-maker, or a visionary, or a coach, or a teacher, or a mentor, or a philosopher, because the people who are there are the people like me and you and the ones who said yes to feeling like, “What the fuck am I doing? Who am I? Am I going to die? What is happening right now?”

That’s the kind of thing we need to run towards.

Hayley: It sounds so scary. It is scary when you’re in it.

Angel: Then afterward, it is comical.

Hayley: It’s so comical. I remember that conversation with you, Ang. When you said to me, “I feel like I’m this shit and the waves are crashing over me and the ship is sinking and it’s got holes in it. I’m just trying to stay afloat, but there’s a fucking storm in the form of people who are attacking me right now. I’m trying to write out the storm.” This was a moment where we forget it’s just how we’re looking at ourselves. We don’t realize how powerful we are. Think about this, we’re not made up of human flesh. That flesh is made up in particles. Those particles came from earth, those earth particles came from stars that exploded and turned into other stars.

We are literally made of matter that is infinite. When we remember that, that we are infinite, you are not the boat, you’re the ocean. No matter what’s happening in the ocean, it’s always going to be the ocean. The ocean has a storm over here and people getting engaged and making love in the sand over there on the other side of the world. It’s like sinking ships over here and it’s rising the tides. All the boats rise somewhere else on the other side the world.

When you remember how powerful you are and you look at these massive things that you think, “Oh, my gosh, okay. I can do this in my business. I can do it at my work. I can do it with my kids. I can do it with my health. I can do it with my spirituality. No, I’m not willing to do it with my marriage”, that’s different. I can do it in my marriage, I can do it with sex, I can do it with religion, I can do it with politics, I can do it with my health, I can do it, everywhere in my life, but I am not going to do it with my business because that is a different kettle of fish right there. Is that one thing that you’re looking at that you think, “No, no, no, no, no.” [laughs] It does not apply there. That’s the place.

Angel: It makes me laugh so much. I brought so many of the golden nuggets that you’ve talked me into everything that I do in it. It’s like this always knowing who I was and who I want to be and who I was meant to be. Then hearing it’s being slapped in the face like that from someone like you, it’s like, “Okay, yes.” I just want to bring in three ultimate rebellions that you’ve taught me about, that has really challenged me to be whoever the hell it is I want to be and nothing less than that, which means that I command this space that I’m in.

I command what I want moment to moment. I put myself first at all times. I only operate within what feels good. Surprise, surprise. The byproduct has been getting everything I wanted and getting everything I didn’t know I even wanted and more. Those pearls have been A), is it a hell yes or is it a hell no? B) ask better questions. I love that one because you sound so scary when you say it.

Lastly, understanding that when it comes to quantum leaps and manifesting and the ways you can just turn your personal and professional evolution on its head in a heartbeat, it’s like, “Hello, life will be changed forever.”

Could you possibly talk us through these three golden nuggets because I feel struggling to find a sophisticated rebellion within them, sounds this will really help?

Hayley: Absolutely. Thank you for sharing the three that have made the difference to you because there are so many that we could have gone with today. This is everything. This makes it real. This is what’s made a difference to you, so I’m so glad that you share those with me. Yes, I will talk about each of them. The “hell yes or the hell no” concept, it’s literally. We live through distinction. It’s like putting on a pair of glasses. How am I going to make this decision? We have a distinction, hell yes or hell no. That’s how I’m going to make the decision.

The reason why is because if you were to write everything in your life from zero to 10, zero being that’s a shit idea and 10 being like, “Oh, my God, my pussy is tingling over this,” then the 10 is what you want. If you are saying yes to sixes, sevens and eights, guess what, there’s no room for a 10. Because when there’s room for a 10, the 10 takes up everything.

It requires all of you. It gives you the greatest pleasure, the greatest sense of meaning, the greatest feeling of being aliveness. Once you have a 10, there’s no room for anything else.

If you want 10’s in your life, you have to be willing to give up everything including a 9.9 to make it a 10. What that means is if it’s not an absolute fuck yes, it’s a no, because it’s not a 10. There’s no such thing as “hell maybe,” this is what my coach Rich taught me. There’s no such thing as “hell maybe.” That just helps in the middle there, in decisions.

Angel: That is so good.

Hayley: To find the things that are not a “hell yes” until you turn them into a “hell yes,” we can transform our lives in that way or it becomes a “Fuck no, move on, close the door, burn the bridge. I only accept this. I will only accept what I expect and that is a 10.”


Angel: Really quick, but not quick. Human design, obsessed. And my human designs surprise-surprises manifesting generator. Surprise-surprise is that I thrive when I follow where my womb and my guttural takes me. Hayley, I’ve got to show you my human design because you are going to piss yourself laughing at how accurate it is.

It’s all about me literally making noises and those noises taking me to the things that I need to do. When I go, “Mm, ah, yeah,” which is I do all the time, that’s actually my guttural sound bringing me to the place I need to go. The most interesting this process is the whole time I’m reading about how my personality type, so my designs derive only if I follow the “hell yes.” If there is anything that is an eight or a seven, even if it’s a 9.7, I’ve compromised and it’s trouble. It’s just married that philosophy so well because it’s like no one either feels really, really, really, good, or I’m not doing it. Every time I compromise even slightly, there’s an onslaught of negative repercussions. Even though those negative repercussions might not affect anyone outside, my body suffers the consequence. I’m tired, I’m grumpy, I’m upset, I’m resentful, et cetera, et cetera, and now, it doesn’t happen anymore.

Because I’m only, and I’m only doing things that are hell, yes, and I’m calling it being ruthless with my energetic, input and output is, “If I do that, there is no reason for me to be stressed anymore because I’m only doing that which gives me pleasure,” and that has been freeing a spot.

Hayley: I love that you have a personality, human design that backs up what you know on a soul level, and that is so powerful.

Angel: Exactly, I was like, “Oh, yes, uh-huh, universe, yes, okay, I’m listening now.”

Hayley: You’re right. There really is always a consequence for not following what is the hell, yes, and it’s usually some lackluster feeling inside of your body, that you don’t even know is there until the thing that’s not a 10 is removed.

Angel: Imagine having a basket, that basket can only hold 10 eggs, you currently have nine eggs that are an assortment of hell maybes and total hell in the range of 1 to 7.7 [laughs] From this day, egg that’s a roaring 10 comes through, and you need the whole basket in order to contain the magnificence of that one egg, and that Mr. 10, Miss 10, thing 10 is like, “Sorry, there’s no room for me in here.” And you end up missing out on the most epic transformative hell, yes, of your life because you are too busy cradling a basket of shit that makes you feel lackluster.

Hayley: If it’s in the basket what happens is, and this is why I say you’ve got to look at the things that you’re avoiding. What most people do is they’re like, “Yes, but I’ve got this bag of sevens, and I just want to keep them until I find the 10, and then I’ll let go of the sevens.” No, no, no. That’s not how it works, you got to be willing to take that basket, turn it the fuck upside down, walk away into the abyss of darkness and unknown. The place that makes you sweat down your butt, and your hands go clammy, your stomach starts flipping, your voice starts shaking, and you question everything about yourself into that abyss, that’s where the 10s are baby.

Angel: 100%, oh my God, and also Hayley just made me think about something, is that when it comes to the martyrdom, it’s, obviously, The Masks We Wear – I’m writing a book, and it’s literally about obliterating what we know about motherhood, martyrdom, and misogyny. I also just feel the hell, yes, and the hell, no, is going to really echo with people who are still in that martyrdom mindset, people with mindset that, “I need to say, yes, to everything in order to survive, and please mindset.”

That’s really important and I say that that was the first thing for me because when I realized that, in fact, the most selfish thing that I was doing, was being selfless under the guise of being selfless, was actually focused because everyone around me got the second-rate version of me. Then when I started putting myself first, and saying hell, yes, to only things I wanted, I became the most selfless version of myself. That was huge, it was holy fuck, actually, you mean that doing the things that make me happy doesn’t make me an asshole, it actually [chuckles] profits the people around me? What? It will challenge the martyrdom and people is pleasing is huge.

Second thing, ask better questions, this is how I coach myself on a daily basis. On the off chance that something happens, almost it’s with the thought process, the fact happens, the thought follows, and the feeling is aftermath. I catch myself at that point, the fact happens, the fact is my dog peed on the carpet. I have an option at that moment in time to either have the thought, “Oh that’s okay I’ll pick it up no worries, or how lucky am I to have a carpet, or how lucky am I to have such cute dogs?” Versus, “Fucking dogs peeing on everything,” and then the [laughs] feeling of split that follows, but asking better questions has played into the brilliantly.

If I feel an ounce, an iota of stress, anxiety, or worry all come in, and it’s almost just like I feel it, it’s comical within my bones, it’s a parody of my old self, I will ask myself a better question, and I have this dialogue that happens within my head. Now when I coach people I’m very ruthless, and I’ll say like, “Sorry, ask me a better question I’m not going to answer this until you ask me a better question.”

Please explain this to people without it sounding too scary, and too dominatrix and or patronizing. It’s very, very important in terms of perspective, the ways we talk for ourselves, the ways we speak to others, the questions we ask, because that affects the answers we receive. How would you demystify that?

Hayley: The quality of your life is based on the quality of the questions you ask yourself.

Angel: Oh, fuck me, [chuckles] the quality of your life is based on the quality of the questions you ask. I’m getting that tattooed on my badge tomorrow, that is so good.

Hayley: It’s truth, we’re always asking ourselves questions, our unconscious mind wants to solve problems, answer questions, it’s like punching into Google a search, and you unconsciously search for the answer, we’re looking to close loops all day every day dammit. When we ask ourselves a question like, “Why do I have no energy or what’s wrong with me?” Guess what, it’s like punching into Google, what the fuck is wrong with me Google, and Google’s going to come up with all these answers. You will [laughs] literally answer them, and it will keep in the existing state of negativity or positivity, either way, depending on your question.

If I’m asking myself, “Why am I so tired today, what the fuck is wrong with me, why can’t I just get it together, why can’t I be everyone else?” Guess what, I feel that in my body that’s heavy, I feel it in my stomach, down my legs because I used to ask myself this question all the time when I was sick. A better question and I say to people, “Ask me a better question because I can’t answer that for you, you can answer that yourself, but what answer is that going to be?” Flip the question, how can I get more energy today, what would make me feel so turned on right now, how can I take better care of myself, why do I always do this to myself?

I have no money in the bag, I spend it, what is wrong with me, why do I always end up broke, how can I make $50,000 in the next 90 days, that’s a better question, than tell me all the reasons why I’m a screw-up? Right now, whether you think it’s possible not I’m not interested, what interested in is, can you ask yourself the kind of questions that tantalize you so much, into searching for better answers, and therefore switching your Google brain on to things that you were never switched on to.

Because we can only ever take in so much any moment, switching your brain on to finding, or just being open to answers that were always there. You just never saw them because you were searching for answers to other questions. This is about flipping your lid, flipping your switch, flipping your perspective from focusing on drifting negatively, to focusing on creating in a positive manner.


Angel: I’m genuinely so in awe of you. Trust me, I am very scrupulously inviting people into this podcast, and every single person that’s been on here I am in total fucking reverence of. Hayley, you will never understand how much you changed my life, it’s not even so much that you were like, “Hey, I’m better than you, and this is the information need to implement,” you just gave me the lens that I needed to come home to myself.

It’s like knowing that I just had this in me the whole time, and you were just like that little pixie on the other side, with the lens and the fairy dust, and you’re like, “Let’s do this bitches.” When I came to the Play Bigger Feel Better I was like, “It’s so simple, it’s disturbing,” you’re embarrassed because it’s so obvious, it’s painstaking like, “Yes, well, that makes sense, maybe I should be asking a better question.” One simple statement like that revolutionizes your damn life, “I’m so tired, what the fuck is wrong with me?”

Don’t do the hypochondriac, exacerbate the victim mentality instead of being like, “What can I do today, what’s one thing I can do today to feel energized?” Boom, all of a sudden your whole day and life is changed, it’s so radical and at the same time it is just painstakingly, obvious.

Hayley: We say all the time it’s disappointingly simple, isn’t it?

Angel: No.

Hayley : None of this stuff that we’re doing here is revolutionary, it’s not new it’s just hidden so below the surface, because as highly sensitive people, we are trained to feel what we believe about the world, or maybe what we dream about, or think about, maybe I could just do this instead, that’s not enough, and we’re wrong inherently.

We only make up 20% of the world, we’ve been taught that we need to actually push harder, go harder, make it really complicated, and write a freaking 300-page business plan instead of just making it one line. We’ve been taught that that’s the way to do things, and that’s not the way that people like you, and I actually thrive in the world.

Angel: Exactly right. I’m actually going to come back to the HSP thing in a second, and it’s not the whole last night pack, but the highly sensitive person thing in just a moment [laughs]. The third thing is going to be-

Hayley: I love you.

Angel: -quantum leaping, turning the idea of progression on its head. We said that the only way that you can start a business is getting the business name, and doing the 300-page business plan, and finding funding and blah, blah, blah, blah, poke me in the eyeballs now. Then the fucking me is like, “Actually, here’s an idea do, do, do, do, and then you zoom to point A to point Z in like two steps. That’s what a quantum leap is. You have taught me just so much about how I make the rules, I call the shots, I get to decide how I thrive and therefore, I get to decide how I leap. Take us there.

Hayley: We live in a world that emphasizes that we’re stupid and we can’t actually make our own decisions and we need someone else to tell us what to do, like A, B, C, D, E. We also live in a world that conditions us to believe that this success is outside of ourselves, that the ideas are outside of ourselves and that we need to try really hard.

A quantum leap is when you realize that everything you want is so much closer than you think. Also, it’s not that you were born into a world with rules that we were never actually given, like we weren’t given a rule book but there are unwritten rules, if you know what I mean. Actually, we make those rules. We are generating our lives through the words that we speak and the thoughts that we think and the things that we say to ourselves.

We’re literally generating our experience of the world, hence, the questions. It’s a subconscious thing in conscience that says you only have a certain amount of attention you can give every single day, hence, we ask ourselves questions that direct our attention in the right direction. A quantum leap is something that is available to you right now, that you have not consciously but unconsciously been unwilling to do. For example, if you realize you’ve been avoiding the fact that you are in the wrong relationship.

This is an easy one. Not an easy one to do, but an easy one for me to use as an example. If you have realized that you’re avoiding the fact that you’re in a wrong relationship, the quantum leap is to have the conversation that says this relationship is over. It’s available but we’re not always willing to do it. The quantum leap is when instead of saying, “My price is all this much,” you say, “I price this all this much.”

It’s a different number that comes out of your mouth that you’ve always wanted, that you know your worth, that you know your work is worth, that you know people will pay you. That you can’t afford to not charge anymore because your business is worth more. You’re starting to feel in your body that you need to be charging more. It’s that new number that comes out of your mouth. It’s available, but we’re unwilling to do it sometimes.

The quantum leap, is the thing that makes you literally get that back sweat, that crack sweat that tingles in your belly, and your throat starts croaking just like I mentioned before, and your palms get sweaty because you’re literally just so close to it, but you’re transforming the paradigm that you live in through the words that you speak.

A quantum leap is something that you can do right now that’s available to you, like start eating healthy the very next meal, start charging more, or just begin by asking yourself what is the first step to this thing that I think is impossible? I know that I can create my life exactly the way that I want to. This is me programming myself and programming you as you’re listening to me.

I know I can create my life any way that I want. I’m the one who’s in power here. I’m the one who generates my life as we speak. What’s the first step? You always know. I believe that everybody knows what they want. They just tell themselves a story that they’re not ready for it, they’re not good enough, or they don’t know how or who am I to think that I can have that based on where I am right now. Dreams are free, people.

Angel: My fucking Lord.

Hayley: The quantum leap is by saying, “You know what? There’s this incremental path that everybody’s been taught they need to take. If you just improve like 1% a day or 10% a year or whatever, and slowly, slowly, slowly, you creep up. Hopefully, fucking hopefully, at the end of me being a good girl, enjoying everything I’ve been told to do by everyone around me who really don’t know anything else except what they’ve been told to do by everyone around them and who will help us as long as they’ve been told the right thing by somebody else. Hopefully, I’m going to end up where I want to end up if I’m just a good girl.

That other opportunity for us, that quantum leap, is where you are willing to slide the status quo by way of the exponential path, which is where you start asking yourself of what’s the first step to the thing I really fucking want. Maybe I will make a 20-step plan because I’ve got no fucking idea how to get that. Nobody can tell me because it doesn’t exist in anything around me.

That’s your opportunity for freedom. If you don’t know how great, you got to make it up. You ask yourself what is the first step. You do that. Then you don’t think about step two until you’ve actually done step one. By the time you’ve taken step one, you’re now the person who’s on the journey, you’re not the person who’s sitting back and making your 20-step plan.

You are the person who’s in the ring, getting their ass kicked, having a go. From there, you have a totally different perspective to before you started. From that new perspective, you might see that where you’d thought you had to do 10 steps, you now only need to do one.

Angel: It’s like lightning striking through to the soul and it means a fucking awakening of the highest degree. Everybody needs to hear this and understand. Incremental versus exponential. Incremental versus exponential. When we talk about quantum leaping and exponential growth, it knows no level of prejudice. It’s available to everybody. This is a mindset.

This is believing that the step one or you call the phase one, is the place you start, and then lo and fucking behold, all these other things become available too as you go on, instead of getting lost in the thought of what am I going to do at step 27? I love that you said, “The dream is free, people.” So many of us can’t even get the damn dream out of our hand and onto paper, let alone believe that it’s there before they even get it, and then go on.

That’s why I said there’s a list of a million things I could have written on that you say because your goals are placed to come from, not to run to, and then, of course, believing that the dream is here and real before you even take any action. Because then the action you take is a betrayal to the idea of that dream. It’s really being like, “Hold on a second. This is what I see in my head. This is what I believe, and this is the action that I’m going to take to make it happen.”

Then lo and behold, that bold and braze inaction brings you the thing you want in so much quicker ways because like you say, it’s a lot closer than you think. People make shit complicated for themselves. I just said this earlier last month, this one when I bring it back to for work. Hayley, you sent me that book and you don’t understand what happened to me after you sent me that book.

You sent me that book at the exact same time that I was thinking about writing a book and not knowing how I was going to fund it, and would you be damned that in that book, Napoleon Hill wants to write a book of his philosophies and can’t find the funding. His true self says, “Give some set of instructions as you know,” and says, “You’re going to go and you’re going to ask for this and you’re going to do this, and this, and that.” Napoleon is like, “My God. Can I do that? Can I ask for help? What can I say?”

He makes a big deal out of it, instead of just realizing that the phase one was listening to the voice and the phase two was doing what the voice told him, and then everything else happens subsequently. Mine, for example, I wrote a post literally because of Napoleon Hill, that said, “I’m writing a book. Who wants to support me?” Literally, within 15 minutes, I had three different people that I admire so much, offered to back my vision financially. Then I was like, “Are you fucking kidding me?”

If I would have gone the alternative route, I would have slugged for a year trying to find a literary agent or publisher, and funding, and capital, and blah, blah, blah. All I had to do was believe that what I wanted was so much closer than I actually believed. Just say the damn thing and I just skipped 47 steps by believing that I have the authority to say that thing and ask that thing. The exponential versus incremental is why you’ll be profound? If you imagine that time is your most valuable resource, next to energy, and that time and energy are your thing that in fact, make you rich versus make you poor, and make you feel alive and versus make you feel dead, you better fucking take this part seriously.

It’s either you waste your whole life abiding by what you think you need to do in order to earn the thing that that person has, versus commanding the space and the outcome as if it’s already yours, is going to determine whether you live wealthy in time and energetic input and output or poor. It is huge, huge realizations. Massive ways to start moving throughout the world.

This is why in my whole theme for everything I create now is two things: A, blow your own damn mind; and B, break the rules to make your best work. That case if it comes from sorry, I am not subscribing to what you told me I need to do, I’m going to reinvent the way I do it for myself with no permission. This is the exponential growth where you literally blow your own mind in the process because you realize that, “Oh my God. Everything I’ve been told is a lie. Everything.”

For me, I tell my clients like, “You know what? Once you start proving yourself wrong, that’s when you know you’re moving in the right direction.” That’s how you fly to the sky on a rocket-fueled by that kind of fire and gasoline that you fly in the rounds of “I don’t need to do what anybody else is telling me I need to do. I need to do what feels good within me.”

Hayley: It starts with permission. You don’t even need to know clearly what you want. If you’re really struggling to give yourself permission to believe that it’s possible, just give yourself permission to want it. It’s based on four things really. Number one, give yourself permission to want what you want. Number two, because you want it, it’s meant for you. It’s not hokey-pokey bullshit tricks from the universe. If you fucking want it, you didn’t make it up. It’s meant for you. Number three, because you want it and because it’s meant for you, it’s available to you now.

Angel: Oh my God, Hayley.

Hayley: Number four, confidence is not a requirement.

Angel: I feel like confidence honestly, is the by-product of proving myself wrong. It’s literally just happening, it’s who I am. It’s not even like I’m confident today, no. I feel so confident because I keep proving myself wrong. Now, I’m going to prove them like, “Wow. Okay. Then I’m really good at this because I’ve proven myself wrong 1000 times.” I love what you said as well about, I wanted, therefore, it’s meant for me. If I wanted it, and it’s meant for me, that means it’s accessible to me, genius, pure genius, pure genius. We do not and our body and our soul and our mind does not pine for things, that it is not destined or meant or willing or wanting to have.

It’s such a thing that, the bee is going to pine for snake venom. No. The bee pines, to pollinate. It pines to pollinate, to bring honey, to make honey to et cetera. You don’t pine for the thing that is going to literally self destruct you. You’re going to pine for the things that are going to make you come alive. That is going to sweeten your existence and believing that that’s accessible to you. Huge.

Hayley: It’s a choice. It’s a choice to tell myself that, this is how we condition ourselves for success. I didn’t always believe that it was available right now. That was a choice to open my own eyes, to open other people’s eyes and for everyone to open their eyes. What if it was available right now? What if I have made up an unconscious idea about what this is going to take and the steps that I need to take? What if I just scrapped that for a minute and went, “What if I could just do it right now? What might that look like?” It simply opens your perspective to looking at a different way you might be able to do something and to start immediately.

Angel: People are going to be listening to this and they’re going to be like, “Yes, this is so whoo, whoo. This is bullshit. The only way to get things in life is to work hard.” I can just hear the inter-generational indoctrination of church and parenting and culture. I can just feel it right now. I know that people are going to be listening to this.

I want to just call you out on your bullshit right now and understand that all of the ways in which you might or possibly be confronted by this level of liberation are the exact same ways that you have been internalizing misogyny and patriarchy, and all of the things that we know deep within our souls to be true. That is, this world is ours for the taking.

If you can show up in a way that is compassionate, and kind and energetic, enthusiastic, and confident, and you can command that space. You can open your mind to a place that is just eagerly admitting, I know absolutely fucking nothing. I know what is true within me. All of this is accessible to you. Just because your father told you that the only way to get ahead in life is to get a degree and work your ass off and focus on superannuation of your own ambition, does not mean that that is true.

You need to be willing to go to a place that throws everything you know on its goddamn head. The things in which you are destined to have are not pre-programmed by what someone else has told you. This is not a cut, copy, paste existence. This is a, let me blow up the damn machine. How can we make this seem a little less perhaps, whoo? How can we make them understand that it is that excruciatingly simple, to start putting this into practice right now?

Hayley: At my event last weekend, someone said to me, “Isn’t it just lying to myself. If I just changed my mind and tell myself a different story. Isn’t it this me just lying to myself?” The answer I had for her was like, “Yes, you are lying to yourself. It’s so fucking naughty. It’s so bad to just change your mind, isn’t it and change your life. Right? Go on, by all means. Go on and keep saying whatever it is that you want to say to yourself, that is also a lie that you subscribe to, or give this a go for five minutes and see what happens.”

Angel: How can you taste what truth tastes like, if you don’t give truth an opportunity to flounder about your mouth. If you keep saying the same lie to yourself over and over again. Guys, it is, “Oh, but if I say that aren’t I lying?” Isn’t that the most counterproductive, counter-intuitive, ridiculous thing ever? You will never understand what freedom and truth feels like until you are actually willing to meet that. One of the biggest– There are three fears that come up so often with my clients and that is fear being seen, fear of success and poor self-belief, poor self-confidence.

Fear of success comes from this, it’s like people are more willing to entertain and also be judgmental, and also be an asshole about having these discussions or making these assumptions because they are so afraid of what happens when it all goes right for them. They are so afraid of what happens when everything that they’ve ever wanted comes to them.

A lot of the times people avoid this kind of work and they avoid challenging, because it’s more comfortable as we know, doing the thing that’s expected of them or that they’re comfortable doing. Because they’re genuinely terrified of what happens when they get everything they want. I’m sure at the beginning when I spoke to you, I just knew how much you moved me.

Energetically, I needed to keep listening because I was being blown away. In the beginning, there were things inside of me resisting what you were saying like, surely it cannot be this easy. Surely this is to whoo. Surely, surely, surely, surely.

Hayley: If I was lying to myself, but I’m still getting the results, I’m happy to continue lying to myself for the rest of my life. Let me believe my own lies then. Like I said in the beginning, it’s really difficult to explain this to somebody who is a nonbeliever. That sounds really, really whoo whoo, I know. You can’t comprehend this fully, until you give it a go.

I swear to you, I’m about to make another leap myself. I’m getting the back sweat. I’m getting these thoughts. I’m getting sweaty palms. I’m getting the chest fizz. It doesn’t ever not feel like that. As you take leap, after leap, after leap, you’re going to feel really, really fucking uncomfortable. That discomfort becomes a feeling of being home.

That discomfort becomes a feeling of excited discomfort because you know, oh my gosh, I’m about to blow my own damn mind again. Can I really do it again? This time again. It’s those moments when you feel sick to your stomach, I want you run towards those moments and give it a go and watch what happens. That’s the way you’re going to understand this.

If you’re going to sit on the sidelines and pooh-pooh it, I will give you the words that Brené Brown speaks. She said, “Unless you are in the ring getting your ass kicked on a regular basis, I’m neither interested nor open to your feedback.” I believe in this so much. Because there are so many people who will hear this, think it is so whoo whoo and not want to give it a go, but then continue complaining that their life is not working out the way that they want to. I’m not saying take what I say as gospel, and believe the same things as I believe, never.

I’m saying take this as an opportunity to give yourself permission to think differently. Then blow me out of the water. Do it better than me. Do it better than everyone else you know. The only way that you can do it is by looking at what you want to believe about the world. What you want to believe about what’s possible for you. What you want to desire and giving yourself permission to create and generate from your own unique gifts and strengths and perspectives and experiences and energy. From there, you will create magic. You will inspire people, like you have no idea because you’ll just be being you. You will literally blow your own damn mind.

Angel: What is the goal here? Every single guest I’ve had has referenced Brené Brown.

Hayley: It doesn’t surprise me.

Angel: Either right now this is just pure coincidence, or is the universe just reiterating all of my philosophies about a doing a TED talk, thank you, but be this is the kind of stuff that needs to be shared. If Brené Brown can make this much impact with having absolutely no plans of ever discussing vulnerability ever, this being a total fluke, that this what happened to her.

This is such an exciting time to be alive when this many people are tuning into conversations, for example, on something as mainstream as Netflix. Because they are then in a better position to hear what people like you are saying, Hayley. It’s less like whimsical, it’s less woo woo. It’s more like, “Hold on, wait a second, this is for real. Let me at least implement it. Let me get out of my own head. Let me stop getting in my own way. Let me make it happen.”

Nobody can focus their attention on challenging the status quo or rebelling against what other people do if they’re not willing to rebel within what they do to themselves. That’s actually where it starts for me. The first place that you have to challenge the status quo is the ways you’ve actually internalized every status quo you’ve been fed, and every status quo you fucking thought.

Because in that place, you create the landscape to defy every construct the world has placed on you. Hayley, I want to thank you so much for coming today. If anybody wants to find you, work with you, lick your brain, how do they do that?

Hayley: They should come to my website. Hayleycarr.tv/gift. We can stay in touch there. All of my social media, all of my love letters, all my videos, all my coaching, everything is linked from there. On that actual web page, you can sign up for a gift that I have, where I give away a self-coaching guide. You can actually do the exploration and the excavation to find out what it is or the status quo pieces that you’re paying attention to right now.

How you can actually look at those, dismantle those. Start doing things that are uncomfortable, and also ask yourself for how far you’ve come. To do it every single week. You can stay so connected and in tune with that voice that you know what it sounds like when it’s talking. You can follow it, you can praise it and you can move forward from there.

Angel: I adore you. Thank you for being alive at the same time as me. Thank you for falling into my lap. Thank you for propelling what I know now to be living in a place of pure poetry and passion and purpose. Thank you for being my friend. Thank you for being vulnerable. Thank you for teaching me from a place of total example. Thank you for teaching me what it means to be a rebel with a sexy ass cause. I love you so much Haley, thank you so much for spending time with me today.

Hayley: I love you Angela, and thank you so much for having me.

Angel: My pleasure, bye.

Hayley: Bye.

Angel: If you have a body of work, a mission, a message that has been founded on the basis of being the lone wolf and persisting in a state of conviction and passion and self-belief and ruffling your feathers and breaking the rules and getting down with the bad self, well I want to hear from you. Head on over to angelagallo.com or simply look below in the show notes and they’ll be a straight-up link for you to get me your information. Get the world your inspiration.

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